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Why would Christians want to reach out to an Islam that despises them?

The futility of James White’s interfaith dialogue

By Dr. Mike Spaulding

The current firestorm related to James White’s decision to facilitate an interfaith dialogue with Imam Yasir Qahdi is puzzling in the least and has become a stumbling block for many who do not understand how White cannot understand that he is “dancing with the devil” as the saying goes. (Editor’s note: James Simpson wrote on this topic yesterday here at Bombthrowers. The article is “When evangelicals become useful idiots for Islamism.”)

Mr. White’s response to those critical of his decision has been the polar opposite of remorse and he has in fact dug his heels in and maintained that his actions were right and consistent with what Christians should be doing. Is that true? What bridges can be built to people who teach that Christians who do not submit or convert to Islam should be murdered? What madness is this that has gripped Christians today such that they believe the lie that building bridges to nowhere constitutes evangelism? I won’t rehash all of White’s actions related to this in detail. You can read about that here.

What I wish to address is the support White has received. Surprisingly a couple of people with very different perspectives, one might say two people with theological beliefs very much at odds with one another, have stepped into the fray to defend White’s error. I am speaking of Phil Johnson and Michael Brown. This has added a layer of intrigue to the entire situation but has also served to obfuscate the truth of what critics of White’s decision to promote an interfaith dialogue have been saying. By engaging in what appear to be damage control activities on behalf of White, Johnson seems to have exposed himself as a hypocrite of the highest order. You can be the judge of whether or not that is true based on the information contained in this article. His previous statements seem to completely contradict his stated position concerning James White’s ecumenicalism, or to use the new and improved phrase, interfaith dialogue.

Some background is in order for readers unfamiliar with Johnson’s proclivity to challenge things he deems inconsistent with Scripture. Example number one involves John Piper’s support of Rick Warren. Johnson left no doubt where he stood on that. Here is a quote and a link to the article Johnson wrote about Piper and Warren:

The fact is, Scripture commands faithful Christians to confront, rebuke, and correct those who twist or reinvent the gospel–not to ask them to speak at our most important conferences.

Let me state for the record that I support many of Johnson’s views generally speaking.

Specifically, I support his insistence that we follow the Scriptures and that we identify what is inconsistent with the Scriptures. That is why it is confusing to see Johnson support James White.

White believes that through an interfaith dialogue Christians can learn the truth of what Islam is. To that end White welcomed Jihadi Imam Yasir Qahdi into a church and then set up the audience to accept what he was doing as the normal actions of a Christian by making several disarming and clearly erroneous statements. Here is an example:

Watch the video:

The truth of Islam is that kafirs (anyone not a Muslim by birth or profession) are obligated under Islam to convert, be subject to demeaning and onerous behavior by Muslims, or be killed. There is no concept of humanity or of individual human beings and therefore no basic human rights within Islam.

Dr. Bill Warner of the Center for the Study of Political Islam says:

There is no such thing as humanity, only the duality of the believer and unbeliever. Look at the ethical statements found in the Hadith. A Muslim should not lie, cheat, kill or steal from other Muslims. But a Muslim may lie, deceive or kill an unbeliever if it advances Islam.

There is no such thing as a universal statement of ethics in Islam. Muslims are to be treated one way and unbelievers another way.

The closest Islam comes to a universal statement of ethics is that the entire world must submit to Islam. After Mohammed became a prophet, he never treated an unbeliever the same as a Muslim. Islam denies the truth of the Golden Rule.

By the way, this dualistic ethic is the basis for jihad. The ethical system sets up the unbeliever as less than human and therefore, it is easy to kill, harm or deceive the unbeliever.

The dualism of Islam is more deceitful and offers two choices on how to treat the unbeliever. The unbeliever can be treated nicely in the same way a farmer treats his cattle well. So Islam can be “nice”, but in no case is the unbeliever a “brother” or a friend. In fact, there are some 14 verses of the Koran that are emphatic—a Muslim is never a friend to the unbeliever. A Muslim may be “friendly,” but he is never an actual friend. And the degree to which a Muslim is actually a true friend is the degree to which he is not a Muslim, but a hypocrite.

That’s why Americans were shocked when the Muslim couple in California, who were so friendly came into the office one day and murdered their co-workers.

All of this makes perfect sense to Imam Qahdi and all Muslims who practice true Islam. This is why Muslims hate Jews, refer to them as apes and pigs, and carry on a continual pogrom against Israel. Muslims insure there will be a perpetual war against Jews and Israel by training their children to hate Jews as soon as they are able to walk and talk.

Below is an example of what Yasir Qahdi really thinks of Jews and Christians.

Watch the video:

White and Johnson perhaps do not comprehend that Islam is based on dualism. Americans, and indeed all nations that are part of Western civilization, base their logic on the law of non-contradiction. This basic foundation of reason and logic states that if two things contradict one another at the same place, time, and context then at least one of them is false.

They might both be false, but they cannot both be right. Islamic logic is dualistic. Two things can contradict each other and both be true. That’s why imams such as Qahdi can sit smiling in a Christian church, make nice and pretend he is truly a friend of Christians, and then when he is among his Islamic brethren, reveal what his thoughts really are.

In another (audio) clip, Qadhi calls the Holocaust propaganda and defends Hitler. The audio file is available here.Why does Johnson not take White to task for the very thing for which he previously took Piper to task? Johnson stated very clearly during a radio interview in September 2011 that not refuting a false religion or false teacher is simply not acceptable behavior for a Christian.

I find it interesting that John MacArthur sees the issue clearly but Johnson does not when it involves White. Here is an excerpt (video clip here) from MacArthur preaching on 2 Corinthians 6:14. Even though MacArthur was not offering these insights within the context of the James White situation, they are nevertheless strikingly appropriate.

“What has a believer in common with an unbeliever?” To put it another way, “what has faith to do with non-faith?” They’re by very definition mutually exclusive. If you believe this and you don’t believe this, then there’s no common ground. Because believing in the gospel and the Word of God is a totally life-dominating faith. The faithful and the faithless have nothing in common. Their ideologies are mutually exclusive. No spiritual enterprise can be attempted with the view to success that involves such a mingling….

Any attempt to get together in a denomination, any attempt to get together in an association, any attempt to get together in some kind of a ministry of evangelism, a campus ministry, a crusade, any kind of event like that, an attempt to get together in a school setting, an educational environment, and supposedly be able to commonly move toward one goal is ridiculous. Any attempt at fellowship in common spiritual life with unbelievers is ridiculous, damaging and falsely reassuring to that unbeliever.

True Christians have to separate from unbelievers in matters related to ministry, teaching and worship. And when I say teaching, I’m talking about teaching that relates to God and His truth.

So, first of all then, it is irrational to attempt to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. It should be obvious to anybody who can think that this is…mutually impossible to bring these two realms together.

Listen, pagans don’t mind joining with Christians in religious activity. They love it. But we can’t allow it. We cannot allow it. We cannot join with unbelievers in worship or ministry or any enterprise that involves God, nor can we invite them to join our enterprise. And it is because of the sacrilege of it.

Any joining to unbelievers is putting idols in the temple of God, or putting the temple of God in an idol temple. It is blatantly, overtly, intolerably sacrilegious.

Those whose passion is righteousness cannot partner up with those whose passion is lawlessness in any common spiritual enterprise. And it doesn’t help God. It’s not a clever way to achieve His purposes; it is a violation of His Word.

Can we make spiritual heroes out of the people that violate these commands? I would think, rather, that a call for church discipline would be in order. [emphasis added]

For believers, there can be no compromise. We cannot engage ourselves with unbelievers in any spiritual enterprise. That’s the issue: “Do not be bound together with unbelievers.” That is the command that sets this text in motion. And it is an unmistakable call to believers to separate from unbelievers. No one could miss that that’s what it’s saying.

I agree wholeheartedly with what MacArthur states above. Johnson and White should both be brought before their respective home church and reprimanded. This kind of selective adherence to the Scriptures is not acceptable regardless of your fan base or public support by other Christians. In this clash between truth and Johnson, White, and their supporters we see the cult of personality once again raising its ugly head. You are not right because of who  you are, how popular you are, how many books you’ve written, or your reputation. You are right when your views are consistent with what the Scripture teaches. White and Johnson are both wrong as wrong can be on this interfaith dialogue issue.

I find it even more surprising that Johnson supports White in the face of White’s continued acceptance of Michael Brown and Brown’s Word Faith theology. It was not that long ago that the ministry Johnson is associated with sponsored what was called the Strange Fire conference. During that conference MacArthur and others denounced Word of Faith theology as well as NAR and other affiliated entities. In the scorched earth approach of the Strange Fire conference speakers, even solid Bible-teaching, Gospel-preaching non-secessionists were called out. Apparently Johnson doesn’t hold the same view today because Michael Brown defends Hinn, Prince, Copeland, Dollar, and every other Word Faith and hyper-grace teacher under the sun. This is strange fire from Johnson for sure.

Why is Johnson defending White when based on his own words expressed over many years, he should be offering correction to White and standing opposed to White’s interfaith dialogue? If White and others are truly interested in understanding Islam then they should be engaging people who have escaped Islam through faith in Jesus Christ such as Shahram Hadian and Usama Dakkok. There are also many scholars who can easily explain to White what Islam is and what it teaches. Why is he not taking advantage of these resources? I know that several platforms have been offered as hosts for this dialogue.

2 John 9-11 says that those who give a platform to a false teacher are taking part in their evil deeds. Would this also apply to those who defend such spiritual enterprises with false teachers and false religions?

Here is the glaring problem: if we cannot even agree that a conversation about Islam with a Christian former Muslim would be much more beneficial to Christians than a conversation with a radical jihadi imam; if we cannot agree that a conversation about Islam with a radical jihadi imam is worthless when you are attempting to pursue truth, then the Christian Church in America has become compromised, has lost the ability to discern, and is one step away from becoming another apologist for the lie of Satan that is Islam.

Islam is a religious man-made system comprised of the doctrines of demons and spiritual deception and wickedness. What dialogue is there to have with a belief system that says God has no Son, the crucifixion is a hoax, the Bible is corrupted and useless, and Christians are regarded as filthy people and likened to pus-oozing, rotten stinking corpses?

Shocking? Then you don’t know true Islam and it’s time you woke up to the truth that White, Johnson, and others are trying to tell you.

In 2 Samuel 12 Nathan the prophet approached King David with a story of a man with many riches and flocks who forcibly took a lamb from a man who had very few. David’s response of anger to Nathan’s story was appropriate and demonstrated that he knew outrageous and ungodly behavior when he heard it. But David’s response also highlighted the fact that sometimes people can be blind to their own culpability. Nathan’s declaration to David that “you are that man” and then this statement, “Why have you despised the word of the Lord by doing evil in His sight?” broke David and resulted in his confession and repentance.

Confession and repentance is a good place to start. After that White and Johnson can ask Christians they have attacked and maligned for standing against their error for forgiveness. If they refuse it is time to place them squarely in the compromised camp and refuse to have any more dealings with them or their ministries until they do.

Mike Spaulding (website) was ordained to the ministry in 1998. He is the teaching pastor of Calvary Chapel of Lima, Ohio, and hosts the Soaring Eagle Radio show.

This article was first posted at Dr. Spaulding’s website. The version here at Bombthrowers has been slightly edited.

Comments

  • James Simpson

    Nice.

    • Ham Boner

      Now read the other responses posted after yours. No one is taking your view. None.

      • James Simpson

        Except for the people actually writing about it. It is a difficult subject, and I don’t doubt White’s motives, but the interfaith dialog is not the way to go. It was designed by leftists and Islamists to undermine Christianity and inject false narratives. It is the province of “pastors” like Jeremiah Wright and Jim Wallis.

        • Luis

          James Simpson, you are a godless, nasty man. Repent, become a member of a solid Bible believing church, outreach your community, and love you enemies. Leave your idol of politics at the foot of the cross and leave your keyboard alone.

          • James Simpson

            Very unChristian, nasty thing to say from someone who knows me not at all. You can always tell the phonies: they call you names rather than refute what you say.

          • Sean

            James we have all seen your reply to White’s tweet. You admit to not even researching anything White has said or done. You have never seen any of the debates or even read his book, but you feel the authority to slander him. That is unchristian. I guess you missed the Great Commission Christ gave to all us that believe in him.

          • Ariel

            James that is a little ironic on your part asking someone to refute you and read what you are saying when DR White specifically asked if you had watched any of his debates or read his stuff and you responded “Why should I, You are wrong”

            This is exactly why Dr White and the rest of us take the time to read/listen/understand where people are coming from so we accurately represent them and make sure we don’t make false accusations.

          • Denise Grimes

            They aren’t giving Scripture. They are fighting in the flesh and for personality.

          • Luis

            What a hypocrite! You never read or heard all the debates Dr. White has spoken about Islam, yet you slander his ministry. I am not guessing, James Simpson, I know by your vulgar comments and blogs that you have no elders and church that keeps you accountable for your filth you put into the public.
            Stop blogging and politicking, and go help your community.

        • Ariel

          James Simpson you are thoroughly wrong, an “interfaith” dialogue is what allows us to to speak in a civil setting which the gospel can easily be proclaimed. It demonstrates you have a lack of knowledge or experience in proper evangelism. Did you watch both parts of the discussion ?

          You need to prove that DR White was injecting “false” narratives, whatever that means.

        • Landon

          Why don’t you write an article about the second dialogue? The one where James White presented the gospel in a mosque. I find it hard to see this fitting the description of “undermining Christianity.”

        • AndyTGD

          Guilt by association much? It was clearly nothing like an ‘interfaith’ dialogue in the same vein as liberal denominations – have you watched both nights? I ought to know the difference as a former liberal and I can assure you they are utterly different; influenced by completely different purposes and intentions. The White/Qadhi dialogue was uncompromising on both nights. The Good News was shared with the Muslim people and misapprehensions corrected – is that not enough for you?

        • Denise Grimes

          Indeed, White is no different than all the liberals out there doing the same. Rick Warren and Robert Schuller, both fellow Fuller Theological Seminary graduates where White graduated, have done the same thing. Trying to coexist with those seeking to eradicate you is impossible.

          • Ariel

            Were not called to hide in our little comfy safe spaces. I Co-exists with many people, Muslims, Atheists, agnostics etc. This is how I can demonstrate what it is like to be a Christian by my actions as well as interact with them on a meaningful way which allows me to present the gospel.
            Your charge of James White being a Liberal is grossly incorrect and it shows that you actually have never listened to him speak. You most likely have no understanding on how to actually evangelize. Your statement reminds me of that “red neck” cultural Christianity.

  • Andrew Farmer

    Why would Christians want to reach out to an
    Islam that despises them?

    Maybe because we are commanded to by Jesus Himself.

    Matthew 5:43-48 (NASB)

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But
    I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so
    that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to
    rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous
    and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love
    you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If
    you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do
    not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be
    perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    • scott

      To witness to a single Muslim one on one is fine. To bring an Imam into a Christian church to preach & teach and coddle him like he’s a rock star is NOT what Jesus said to do. Jesus also never told us to stand helpless before Muslims and let them rape our wives and children whilst they slice off our heads.

      • Jim Blainey

        Scott, I’m embarrassed for you. Please watch the full video of the dialogue.

        Please.

      • Sean

        Scott, I have to agree with Jim here. It is obvious that you have never watched any of the debates that White has had with him. So, before you go and slander a brother maybe you either need to watch a few of the debates or back off commenting.

      • Sean

        Also, since you are saying “Jesus also never told us to stand helpless before Muslims “, tell me how did most of the Apostles die? What happen to those in the early Church that are called Martyr?

        • Angel Jabbins

          Good point. But I guess comfortable American Christians think what happened to the Apostles should never happen to them. The entitlement mentality is everywhere today…even in the Church. The Apostles were martyred for the very reason that they did take the gospel to the those who hated them.

      • Landon

        To witness to a single Muslim one on one is bringing him to the church. What’s your definition of “church” exactly?

        • Jim Blainey

          It’s interesting that over the course of the day the focus of discussion has changed. It started off about the content of the dialogue, now it’s mostly just about the location.

          • Landon

            I guess that’s one result of trying this hard to put someone down rather than allowing simple truth to speak.

      • Gary Good

        He did not bring an Imam into a Christian church to preach. This was not a worship service and there was no preaching. There was also no raping of women or children and no heads were sliced off.

        Do you have any idea that there was a second night in which James White was invited into a local mosque, in which he proclaimed the gospel?

        • Denise Grimes

          This was a church deliberated chosen because it was a church, just as the second night was chosen to be at a mosque–they are both gatherings of each religion. This was a gathering of professing Christians and without doubt some of the church’s elders were there for such an event. Moreover, they were invited for “fellowship” afterward.

          • AndyTGD

            You think that having hospitality with unbelievers after a dialogue in a church *building* is the same kind of fellowship Christians have? Okay…

          • Denise Grimes

            I said they invited “fellowship”. I didn’t say anything about hospitality. Fellowship shows this was indeed a church event and no doubt attended by the elders as well. So it was a church setting. Now show from Scripture where unbelievers can fellowship with believers? 2 Cor. 6:14-18 says it’s impossible. In fact it says there’s no harmony, agreement, nor commonality between unbelievers and believers because we are in Christ and they are of the devil.

          • AndyTGD

            No, 2 Cor. 6:14-18 talks about being yoked together to form binding partnerships – especially marital ones – according to any decent commentary. Hardly relevant to an uncompromising discussion of our positions, actually correcting misapprehensions, followed by a chat and some bickies (presuming there were refreshments such as biscuits). I guess you’re also against learning from unbelievers and having friends who aren’t Christians? Must be great to live in the Bible belt of a majority Christian country.

          • Denise Grimes

            2 Cor.. 6:14-18 says that there’s no harmony, no commonality, and no agreement between Christians and unbelievers because they have different natures and different fathers–this is foundational to the very nature of the two. So no, there’s no true friendship between believers and unbelievers based on what Scripture states. One follows the devil and his devices, hating Christ and ultimately hating the Christian, the other follows Christ and loves Him and seeks to obey Him from the heart, believing every word of Scripture to be absolute truth and is living and active, sharper than any sword. There is no neutrality between the unbeliever and God, nor between the unbeliever and the believer–that’s the point of 2 Cor. 6:14-18 and also James 4:1-4, 1Cor. 15:33, Prov 13:20,and 1 Cor. 1-2. True unity is between those of like mindedness; for the Christian it is with those who are in Christ and have sound doctrine (Eph. 1-4).

          • Gary Good

            So, that means we can’t have any friendships, whatsoever, with unbelievers? Is everyone of your friends a believer?

            Please tell us how you go about proclaiming the gospel to your neighbors if you can’t first be friends with them. Do you treat all unbelievers as your enemies?

          • AndyTGD

            “While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

            12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.” (Matthew 9 10-12)

          • Gary Good

            How do you know that the church building (the Church is the people of Christ, not a building) was deliberately chosen because it was a church building? It was probably chosen because the local Church owned the building and it was much cheaper than renting a place to hold the event. Same with the mosque.

            So what if they were invited for “fellowship”? It gave the Christians an opportunity to speak to the Muslims and either proclaim the gospel or afford another opportunity to do so.

      • Denise Grimes

        Moreover, Paul never went to the philosophers and sorcerers of his day to sit under them for a “better” understanding, nor did he spend hours and hours reading their demonic books (which is what White did by his own admission, thus violating Phil 4:8–he indoctrinated himself). Paul preached Christ crucified.

        • Angel Jabbins

          You often can not win someone who is steeped in a false religion unless you understand what it is they believe. (I know…I came out of Catholicism.) When you contend for the faith with them, you need to show them how their beliefs are false. I have had discussions with atheists online and what frustrates me is that they are arguing from their ignorance of what Christianity really teaches. They don’t understand the basics of the faith and then make outrageous arguments against it based on their misconceptions. I provide links to correct their misunderstanding. Those most won’t look at them, sometimes a few will and the discussion is much more profitable. It is the same the other way. They have referred me to links. I read what they believe so I can see where they are going off the rails and can better argue my points with them. Jesus engaged a Samaritan woman in conversation. The Jews hated Samaritans and his disciples were very suprised to find him talking to one. Jesus allowed her to present her beliefs…as wrong as they were…then He gave her the truth. He cared enough about her to engage her and to listen to her. People’s hearts have to be prepared to receive the gospel. Some will hear it and receive Christ right away. For others it will take more time, commitment, and study to help them recognize what is false. I wouldn’t try to talk to a Mormon without studying Mormonism. I need to know what they believe so I can refute it. Yes, their books are demonic, but I have the Holy Spirit living in me so I can read their sources and then point out to them how they do not line up with the truth of Scripture. White did not violate Phi 4:8. He is an apologist and an evangelist. He is responsiblity to understand these false religions so he can present and properly defend Christianity. It may not be your calling, but it is his and he is doing the right thing.

        • AndyTGD

          Paul could quote verbatim Greek poetry about Zeus, knew about their religious beliefs and John has a robust philosophical knowledge of the contemporary concept of the Logos in Greek thought. The Church Fathers read and responded to heretics like Marcion or Sabellius in their droves. With all due respect, you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about and you don’t represent Christ and his church.

      • Andrew Farmer

        It is easy to speak from ignorance. Perhaps you should open your eyes and do what scripture says.

  • Jeff R.

    Why do the authors of these articles never quote James White from the dialogues and debates he’s had? You setup straw men by calling the dialogue “interfaith” and by saying James White is like Rick Warren and then you burn those straw men down without actually dealing with what James White has said. It makes me think you haven’t even listened to the dialogue or any debate that James White has done, nor have you listened to any of his material. If you did, you would know that he is not “interfaith.” He is not compromising his biblical beliefs. He is allowing the other side to state their beliefs so that when he contrasts the Bible’s with theirs, he is actually confronting their stated beliefs, not some set of belief that some other muslim somewhere else has, nor some belief that some polemicist has decided all muslims share. I’m waiting for your next article condemning Paul for speaking in synagogues or on Mars Hill as being “interfaith” or maybe take on Jesus’ “interfaith” dialogue with the woman at the well.

    • Jim Blainey

      It’s quite telling that they won’t link directly to the full original video, but only show short out of context snippets (like Michael Moore does). White’s full introduction completely destroys the false narrative they’re trying to create.

  • Brandi Huerta

    “Any attempt to get together in a denomination, any attempt to get together in an association, any attempt to get together in some kind of a ministry of evangelism, a campus ministry, a crusade, any kind of event like that, an attempt to get together in a school setting, an educational environment, and supposedly be able to commonly move toward one goal is ridiculous”

    What “common goal” are you claiming Dr. White is pursuing with these guys? He’s not starting a PTA, or an interfaith bid to end childhood hunger. He just seeks to understand what they actually believe instead of interacting with a straw man of their beliefs.

    I was privileged to hear Dr. White speak on the falsehood and inconsistencies of Islam a few years ago. Some Muslims came in and sat at the back of the church for the presentation, then approached him afterward. Dr. White was incredibly respectful to the men, and very clearly presented the gospel to them. He is not compromising in the slightest.

    • Ham Boner

      “He just seeks to understand what they actually believe instead of interacting with a straw man of their beliefs” https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0c38a6159567744c1d9e2ef97a43fbbfd4eb1aa0830b70e177ade9de8a85907e.gif

    • Denise Grimes

      White himself said his purpose was to come together to find and discuss not only their differences “but also the similarities” (time mark 1:41). At time mark 1:02:00 is where James White actually states his desire is to unite with Muslims so that together the Christians and Muslims, as religious minorities can stand against this secular culture. He is looking to Islam to help fight against secularism.

      Isa 30:1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the LORD, “who carry out a plan, but not mine, and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit, that they may add sin to sin;
      Isa 30:2 who set out to go down to Egypt, without asking for my direction, to take refuge in the protection of Pharaoh and to seek shelter in the shadow of Egypt!
      Isa 30:3 Therefore shall the protection of Pharaoh turn to your shame, and the shelter in the shadow of Egypt to your humiliation.

      Qadhi stated a commonality the two groups have is family values and being against homosexuality. This clearly violates 2 Cor. 6:14-18.

      • Jim Blainey

        I appreciate your attempt to actually interact with the original video, but I also see why most of your comments are copy and paste’s of other people’s words.

        Beginning at the 1:41 mark, if you listen all the way through the end of his comment, White states the purpose of discussing differences and similarities is to overcome the fear and misunderstanding that prevents Christians and Muslims from talking to each other. Or course, this is right for Christians to do as God has not given us a spirit of fear (2 Tim. 1:7), and has called us to share the Gospel with Muslims (Luke 24:47), which requires talking to them.

        The second timestamp you reference is right at the very end of the discussion of that particular topic. You actually need to go back to the 52:00 mark to get the full context. Right after James White gives a rather forceful defense of the Deity of Christ and the Trinity, the discussion turns to the issue of religious liberty. Religious liberty is a secular American enterprise, so it is not a violation of 2 Corinthians 6 to fight against religious discrimination and defend religious liberty for all faiths under US law. It is perfectly acceptable for Christians and Muslims to join together as civil cobelligerents.

      • Jim Blainey

        I appreciate your attempt to actually interact with the original video.

        Beginning at the 1:41 mark, if you listen all the way through the end of his comment, White states the purpose of discussing differences and similarities is to overcome the fear and misunderstanding that prevents Christians and Muslims from talking to each other. Or course, this is right for Christians to do as God has not given us a spirit of fear (2 Tim. 1:7), and has called us to share the Gospel with Muslims (Luke 24:47), which requires talking to them.

        The second timestamp you reference is right at the very end of the discussion of that particular topic. You actually need to go back to the 52:00 mark to get the full context. Right after James White gives a rather forceful defense of the Deity of Christ and the Trinity, the discussion turns to the issue of religious liberty. Religious liberty is a secular American enterprise, so it is not a violation of 2 Corinthians 6 to fight against religious discrimination and defend religious liberty for all faiths under US law. It is perfectly acceptable for Christians and Muslims to join together as civil cobelligerents.

    • Matthew Bryce Ervin

      Where did James White earn an accredited doctoral degree? I’m not trying to be mean. I’m trying to understand why that title is applied to him.

  • AndyTGD

    If early Christians like Stephen hadn’t reach out to their Jewish neighbors that despised and stoned them we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Paul reached out to people who literally wanted and tried to kill him – going to Synagogues with the Good News. Christianity is a religion built around reaching out, serving and witnessing to people who despise and want – oftentimes in other times and places – want to kill us. We are the means by which God spreads the Gospel – it is tragic that you don’t seem to want to extend that to an Imam like Yasir Qadhi and his congregation.

    • scott

      Yeah? And how has that little misguided idea worked for the Christians in all of the Middle East and North African countries? Almost every Christian has been exterminated, Islam is stronger than ever, and very few Muslims have left Islam and truly gotten saved.
      Muslims are VERY different from Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, cannibals, etc.
      They only understand one thing: sheer brute force. Love and kindness only represent weakness to them, and shows them that Allah has given Christians over to their hands to be slaughtered.

      • AndyTGD

        Fortunately, as a Christian, my guide for behavior is the Bible – not secular pragmatism. May I suggest – given your hostility to the Biblical model of evangelism as ‘misguided’ – you examine *yourself* before criticizing Muslims. Have you ever met or conversed with a Muslim before? Given your statements, I doubt you’ve actually conversed with anyone outside a tiny American Fundamentalist ghetto. I’ve actually known and conversed with Muslims and I can assure you that your sweeping, paranoid statements are quite inaccurate (Oh, but they’re all liars, aren’t they? The only Muslim is a violent extremist, right?). Roughly 2000 years ago, Saul of Tarsus was leading lynch mobs persecuting and murdering Christians – Jesus personally ‘reached out’ to him and changed his heart. Think about that and who you are seeking to emulate. Nobody is beyond God’s reach and we are called to spread the Good News everywhere – that includes Muslims!

        • Angel Jabbins

          Absolutely spot on!

      • Maria Mitchell

        Why have Christians been exterminated? You only need to look at the US government’s intervention in those countries. They have deposed almost every single secular Islamic leader there, with only Assad left standing.

        http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-the-iraq-war-became-a-war-on-christians/

      • Angel Jabbins

        So you do not understand that as Christians we will suffer persecution in this world? Persecution of Christians has been going on since day one and it will continue (and increase in these Last Days) until Christ’s return. You are shocked at this? It will eventually come to us here in the US also. There is only so much secular govts can do. It is a spiritual problem which is being made worse by Christians who are filled with hatred, fear, and suspicion of Muslims. When you feel that way, you are not going to lovingly approach a Muslim to share the gospel with him. The gospel is the only answer for the curse of Islam…not gov’t programs to protect us. While govt sanctions and programs do have their place, they can not get to the heart of the problem…their need for Christ. And, no, Muslims are no different from any other group of sinners that ever has been or ever will be. We are all completely depraved at heart and would be hellbound ourselves had not someone cared enough about us in our wretchness to share the gospel with us. The Christians in Muslim countries are suffering, but unlike American Christians, they witness even when they know the consequences will be extreme….witness to the very people who want to mistreat and kill them. Why? Because Jesus commanded us to love our enemies and take the gospel to them.

  • Darin Day

    Why would Christians want to reach out to an Islam that despises them? What is the alternative?

    • Sean

      I guess this guy never learned about Church history.

  • Jim Blainey

    What James White did was exactly what nearly every missionary serving in the 10/40 Window and elsewhere do on a daily basis, just on a much larger scale. Dr. White built more bridges and shared the gospel with more Muslims in these two dialogues (there was a second in a mosque) that most missionaries will be able to reach in their entire career.

    God reaching out to people who despised His is the absolute center of the Gospel (Romans 5:8). And Jesus sending out His disciples to do likewise is the basis for the missionary call. Anyone NOT willing to sacrifice themselves to follow Christ is not one of His disciples (Luke 14:27).

    • scott

      James White has led no Muslims to Christ and is not trying to lead Yassir Qadhi to Christ, either. He is Qadhi’s lap dog who is quickly adopting Chrislam. He is proud and arrogant when shown the truth, and, like most people who refuse to admit they are wrong, he does not present facts & evidence, he just makes personal attacks upon those Christians who are being faithful to God’s Word by calling him to attention of his error.

      Quran Sura 5:51 O you who believe in Allah, do not take the Jews & the Christians as friends. They are friends to one another. Whoever among you takes them as friends, so surely he is of them. Surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. Seer also Sura 3:118; 3:28; 60:1-3.

      Sura 47:3 So when you meet those who are infidels, so strike their necks, decapitating them until you have made a great slaughter. So firmly bind them.

      Jim, I could give you dozens more verses from the Quran alone that are full of hate and murder. Islam is a hate cult with Satan as their god.

      • Ariel

        Scott, You just demonstrated that you have never heard any of the debates or programs Dr White has done. You have no ability to think critically and with your false allegations of DR White adopting Chrislam. He proclaims the gospel in it entirety. By your words it shows you have no clue on how to reach the lost.

      • Jim Blainey

        I agree Islam is wrong, and so does James White. In fact White has been trying to debate Howse’s resident Islamic expert, but they can’t find a single point on which they disagree in order to debate!!!

        Your continued interaction here is embarassing, because all you’re doing is regurgitating talking points from one single source who relies solely on short edited snippets of video from James White. I’m saying…..Go Watch The Original Videos.

        You can so incredibly easily be proven wrong by simply watching the full video of the discussions between White and Qadhi (there are two, but the second is being ignored because it damages Howse’s false narrative).

        Watch the video for yourself and you will see live documented footage of White sharing the Gospel with Qadhi and every other Muslim in the room.

        There are numerous other videos White has made detailing the errors of Islam and sharing testimony of the time he has spend evangelizing Muslims after his debates and on the streets of London.

      • Angel Jabbins

        How do you know James White has led no Muslims to Christ? Are you all- knowing and all-seeing? One sows the seed, another waters it, and another reaps the harvest. And…the Word of God never goes out and comes back void. In every single encounter James White has had with Muslims, he has presented a clear gospel message. He has never found common ground spiritually with any Muslim. Because The Quran teaches that Muslims are not to befriend Christians does not mean we are not to befriend them and try to win them for Christ. Paul was hated by the Jews. He was no friend of theirs, they wished him dead… yet Paul said he wished he could be accursed himself if it would save the Jews. We are to love our enemies. I don’t understand your brand of Christianity that can pick and choose which people group we will extend the love of Christ to. It is not what I read in my Bible.

      • shane

        I stopped reading at “James White has not led any muslims to Christ”. When you Speak as if you are omniscient it discredits anything you say moving forward.

        • Jonathan

          James White wouldn’t even know if or how many Muslims he’s had a hand in leading to the Lord! How many of us ever get to see the whole story of the people we witness to? Not very many. I would suspect that in a lot of cases, even if he’s had a hand in leading a lot of Muslims to Christ, he wouldn’t even know about it.

    • Idahodoc

      Amen! Like a blessed sister now in Iraq working as a nurse with displaced Muslims who were savaged by Muslims. Quick, send Pastor Spaulding there to set her straight!! What was she thinking!

    • shane

      This is such a fantastic comment that others really need to pay attention to what your saying. People that are engaged in apologetics or evangelism as a lifestyle are going to thank the Lord for what is taking place and see this as a potential breakthrough in the gospel to these lost souls. Where is our compassion for these lost souls on their way to eternal damnation! If it weren’t for Gods grace many of you may be born in a Muslim dominated country and lost as any of them. Have we not read the book of Acts? How many times did Paul march right into the synagogue death camps and reason and plead with those that wanted him dead?
      2 Cor 6 – really? What a joke, Not even in the same hemisphere. What kind of exegesis are we doing here to come up with some of these ridiculous claims? Wake up bretheren.

    • Magnus Husoy

      I agree!!! Jim!

    • Matthew Bryce Ervin

      White brought an Imam into a church and allowed him to promote his Islamic beliefs. That is a clear violation of 2 John 9-11, et al.

      Of course we should reach out to others. But that is not where White erred. And why do you call him “Dr.”? He doesn’t have an accredited doctorate.

      • Jim Blainey

        Clearly your bias precludes you from giving Dr. White a fair hearing. You assume your conclusions, you don’t think for yourself, you just regurgitate the talking points from other people. How sad!

  • Tim Bushong

    “Why is Johnson defending White when based on his own words expressed over many years, he should be offering correction to White and standing opposed to White’s interfaith dialogue?”

    Because what Dr. White is doing is NOT an interfaith dialogue in the pejorative sense that you are using. Utterly ridiculous, and you now find yourself in the bizarre position of decrying a clear presentation of the gospel itself, and that is simply shameful.

  • justsomedood

    This ‘those sinners over there’ needs to stop. Jesus sat at ate with ‘those sinners’ and loved them. Us having a dialogue with said ‘sinner’ is NOT interfaith. Not once has White been unfaithful in his delivery of the Holy Trinity or the doctrines of grace. Christ alone. Soli Deo Gloria my friend. Know what that actually means.

  • Luis

    Jame Simpson, and even this so called pastor are the typical, comfortable American envangelicals who will not give up their lives for reaching the lost. They want people who have abandoned their false beliefs before coming to America. Then, they`ll show love and share the Gospel. What a cowardly, comfortable, and consumerist Christianity that view people like products that come ready-made for our own consumption.

    No wonder the communities in which these churches are in are infested with drugs, poverty, and violence: They don`t reach people who are different than them with the Gospel.

  • Jim Blainey

    Phil Johnson already thoroughly answered Mike Spaulding’s charges against him over a week ago.

    http://www.romans45.org/misc/Qs.htm

  • Daniel Staifer

    The Berkley Center of Religion at Georgetown defines an interfaith dialogue as following:

    Interfaith dialogue describes exchanges among religious practitioners and communities on matters of doctrine and issues of mutual concern in culture and politics. Explore the engagement of the world’s religious traditions around theological questions and in their efforts to collaborate on questions of peace, human rights, and economic and social development.

    The purpose of this was to better evangelize the Muslim. That was clearly stated on the front end and the back end of this discussion. As such, the MacArthur quote above doesn’t apply.

    If you want to say you wouldn’t do it, that is one thing. To condemn another for doing and calling them a “useful idiot” and an apostate is another. This is meat sacrificed to idols situation.

    The vitriol and the lack of grace from the WVW crowd obscures the gospel as much as the claimed “compromise” of James White.

    Finally, it is funny that this is coming 7 months after the debate. If Brandon Howse was concerned about the Muslim spread, he should be keeping tabs on this “Jihadi” in his backyard of Memphis. If it took 7 months for him to “shine the light” on it, I question his judgement and his ability to actually defend us since he was asleep as a watchman on the wall.

  • Jenny Perez-Monto

    Just another pastor who did not fact check anything presented to him. And apparently has forgotten his primary mission in life – to preach the gospel to EVERYONE. And that includes those who wish to kill you for doing so. Frankly, you should be embarrassed by this article. I suggest you should rethink, pray and study your bible before writing slanderous articles concerning a brother in ministry..

  • does he still believe and obey Jesus commission? Have these verse been removed from scriptures? Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
    Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
    Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

  • Eric Bouchard

    You might want to go back and read the Bible. After all, Jesus died for people who were bound and determined to kill him, praying as he did “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do.”

    On top of that, there is not a single one of us who deserves salvation. We were enemies of God, just as followers of Islam are, before the Spirit worked in our hearts to change us. In light of the grace that was given to us, how can we not offer grace to others?

    Almost every Apostle was martyred by the very people he was trying to reach. They were following in the footsteps of their Lord Jesus, and we should do the same.

  • Richard Iddings

    It was not an interfaith dialogue and the framing of it as such is disingenuous and a complete mischaracterization of the event. An interfaith dialogue attempts to establish acceptance within a religious framework often glossing over doctrinal differences related to epistemology, soteriology, and eschatology – this event sought no such acceptance and instead highlighted the differences. The big point the event certainly articulated was the lack of homogenization within islam itself; an important point if one want to focus on apologetics with muslims and not look like an ignorant fool – a point I can see many attacking Dr. White don’t much worry about. And a point, many detractors have tried to refute, arguing that islam is indeed homogenized which is probably a shock to all the muslims in the middle east killing each other.

    Another significant point this event has uncovered is the hatred some Christians have for muslims is startling; a hatred so deep they’ll scorch the earth under a brother-in-Christ without much regard for truth or love. I’m guessing these are the same Christians that will one day resemble the enemy they hate but will scream, “God wills it!” as they demonstrate their self-righteousness and convoluted example of love. The vitriol, lies, and attempts to confuse the body on this event has been astounding; as a reminder, decades of White’s debates, discussions, views are publicly available via YouTube – one would think with decades of material folks would be able to quote White uttering heresy, yet, I don’t see any quotes from White… Why?

    Answer: Because Dr. White’s commitment to defending the faith and sharing the Gospel of Christ with muslims, cults, other religions, and other false-converts has remained consistent through the decades – an apologetic solely based on the Word of God. So what’s changed? It seems far too more Christians appreciate the apologetic styling of the Westboro baptist church or the other extreme embodied in Joel Osteen than what is shown to us by Apostle Paul. My guess is that while the angles in heaven rejoice for every muslim that finds Christ there’s a handful of Christian bloggers and podcasters gnashing their teeth at the thought of it… Check yourself.

    • scott

      You are so decieved, it’s hard to know where to start! James White has not shared the Gospel of Christ with Qadhi, but he has fallen all over himself in his infatuation for Qadhi and how wonderful Islam is.
      You know little about true Islam and the way Muslims think. You look at them thru Western eyes and assume they think like you do. Nothing could be further from the truth. True Muslims ALL accept the Quran and Hadith as the word of Allah and endevour to follow them as closely as possible. The Shi’ite vs. Sunni fight is simply a fight over who is going to be king of the Kalifah.
      Go to thestaightway.com and buy yourself a Quran. It is the most accurate Quran available in English and has some history and explanations in it, too. Read the Quran for yourself and learn what these hate cultists really believe.

      • Jeff R.

        “James White has not shared the Gospel of Christ with Qadhi.” Do you know how I know you didn’t listen to any of the dialogue? The gospel is clearly presented to Qadhi and every muslim in that room.

      • Ariel

        No Scott, you are thoroughly deceived and it is obvious that you have not heard anything DR White has done or written on the issue. Saying that he did not share the gospel is a lie. Did you watch part 1 and 2 of the discussion ?

      • Richard Iddings

        Scott, perhaps start with the truth; it seems you’re so buried in deception and lies you’re unable to discern reality… White clearly does proclaim the gospel during part 2 held at the mosque – I believe the Memphis Islamic Center. Again, White did what he ALWAYS does: he defended the inerrancy of scripture, shared the gospel, defended the faith, and proclaimed Christ as Lord & Savior.

        Scott, your hatred for Muslims has completely detached your perspective from reality. Please take a step back. Your hatred is causing you to lie, deceive, and attack brothers-in-Christ. I implore you to check yourself & repent.

        You seem to be confusing White’s civility and his desire to build individual relationships as some sort of testament on ‘how wonderful Islam is” – Take note, White has never said such a statement nor was it insinuated. In fact, White continually points out the remarkable differences between works-based Islam versus Christian Grace; perhaps you missed it because White wasn’t screaming insults while defending the faith. White’s demonstrated of civility and respect wasn’t unique to this dialogue; when it’s reciprocated it is a common behavior trait well demonstrated in all his debates and discussions. Which is odd, because I have never heard or read someone express, “White is infatuated with Mormonism and talking about how wonder Joseph Smith was…”

        Scott, how did Jesus tell us we would know his disciples? We ought not confuse White’s civility and respect as a compromise to the faith; if he has said something heretical, point it out… If he hasn’t, you ought to repent and stand with your brothers-in-Christ instead of attacking them.

      • AndyTGD

        Firstly – as others have noted – you have clearly not even watched the dialogues Scott; especially the one in the Mosque. Dr. White clearly enunciated the Gospel and corrected Islamic misapprehensions about the Trinity etc. Please cease with the misrepresentations. If you seriously believe – after having personally listened to both nights – that Dr. White did not present the Gospel etc. then you’ve lost your mind. Regarding the nature of Islam – even Robert Spencer in his recent radio debate with Dr. White conceded that there is not enough consistency in the sources to produce a monolithic ‘true Islam’. What you have is the Quran read through the lens of their preferred Hadith and Islamic history – hence producing more and less aggressive forms of Islam. To deny the latter’s existence is crazy, but its pretty common among certain folks with conspiracy theorist tendencies.

    • Psk6565

      Agreed! To see how much James has debated Muslim scholars and has never wavered in proclaiming that they need Christ should be enough to know where he stands, But when he seeks to get together to inform Christians about one scholars understanding of Islam and also tell Muslims about the glory of God in Christ, Christians flip by out condemning him.

  • scott

    James White is a useful idiot for Islam and knows next to nothing about Islam. He just believes everything that comes out of Qadhi’s mouth.
    Jesus did NOT call us to cozy up to Satan lovers who desire to destroy us and try to play ‘Kum Ba Ya’ and be nice. Islam has only one goal for Christians & Jews: force them to become Muslims, or kill them. The Quran and Hadith make this fact crystal clear.
    Muslims like Quadhi are ‘evangelizing ‘ James White and his followers, NOT vice versa.

    • Jeff R.

      I look forward to your book refuting Dr. White’s book on the Quran and your documentation of the lack of knowledge he displays in his numerous debates with muslims.

    • Jim Blainey

      Hello “Scott,”

      It’s hard to form strong arguments when a “conservative” website like this one or Brannon Howse’s use CNN’s and Michael Moore’s tactics of only showing short snippets of a video and twisting its context to make the speaker look foolish and hypocritical.

      I encourage you to watch the full original video, or any of the many formal debates James White has done against Muslims, and decide for yourself if the claims you’ve made about “cozying up to Satan,” “playing kum by ya,” or “being evangelized by Muslims” is true.

      There are people claiming to be Christians who are wishy-washy on Christianity and blur the line between truth and error when it comes to Islam. But James White is not one of them, and there are numerous books and (unedited) videos available online that support this.

    • Denise Grimes

      Correct. White ignored the foundational al-takiyya taught in the quran and practiced by Muslims, particularly with gullible Westerners. (Qahdi is smart enough to use words familiar to Evangelicals which would allow them to put their guard down. He used “Jesus” instead of “Isa” for example.) He was indoctrinated by Qadhi and Islam.

      The books, found, and history of Islam is founded in lies, deception, violence, and hatred. There’s nothing good in it at all. ISIS is indeed the true face of Islam, doing the work of Muhammad and the demon allah. It seeks to destroy what is of Christ Jesus and what is non-Muslim too (we’re seeing this in Europe). By calling us “militaristic, conservative Christians” “liars” if we dare call ISIS Islamic without the Post-Modern qualificiations (POMOs can’t really be dogmatic about anything except against their enemies–thus their hypocorisy), he slandered many Christians. The fact is that it was this imam that was the liar for his father the Devil is a liar and a murderer.

      To tell Christians that the wolf is a nice wolf (ie, “moderate”) was dishonest and unbiblical because there’s no such thing as a nice enemy of Christ. It’s actually worse when the enemy is “nice” because it disarms the sheep, lulling them into complacency. Worse are the enemies within who welcome with great respect and honor wolves. This wasn’t honoring to Christ nor His sheep.

      • AndyTGD

        Where did White call Qadhi a ‘moderate’, Denise? You know he didn’t say that. That would be a…. ah, yes, a ‘lie’. He is a believing Muslim – that does not mean a violent Muslim and certainly not an ISIS supporter. So, do stop slandering both men with paranoid, hysterical, American right-wing lunacy.

        • Denise Grimes

          Ah yes, the skeptic will never have enough evidence although there’s a lot out there about Qadhi himself supporting jihadists and the Muslim Brotherhood. When it is given to liberals like yourself, you denounce the sources—all of them. When shown videos you claim “it’s out of context” when it’s not. When I show that the church was used as a church (not a mere building) because they encouraged fellowship afterward, you deny the use of the word they used. Pointing to the quran, the hadith, Germany, Sweden, France, UK and all the examples there—you still will denounce reality. So it doesn’t matter the amount of evidence; your mind is already made up. There’s plenty of evidence that this imam is lying, and it has been reported all over the internet, but willing ignorance will never be teachable to the facts. If Cretans are liars, so are Muslims b/c the quran, hadith, allah, and Muhammad were all liars and taught demonic doctrines.

          It is the imam who’s lying to gullible Westerners like yourself. Liberals want a sanitized Islam they can coexist with. You can’t coexist with those who want to eradicate you. You’ll find out the hard way, but it wasn’t because someone didn’t warn you nor did you learn from Europe’s demise both times. Al-takiyaa is so easily used on unteachable, unwise, ignorants like yourself.

          • AndyTGD

            Where did White call Qadhi a ‘moderate’, Denise? Again, you don’t provide a citation – because it doesn’t exist. I’m sorry, that in your far-right delusional state, you consider me to be a ‘liberal’. I merely recognize that Qadhi isn’t automatically monster and is sincere – sincerely wrong, but sincere nonetheless. Same with lots of other Muslims who you have apparently never interacted with. Talking of ‘evidence’ when it comes to Qadhi – slanderous folks on your side dredging up comments about the Holocaust from 15 years ago and applying them to him today – which he has repudiated on numerous occasions, whilst (in the case of Sam Shamoun) promoting holocaust-denier Steven Anderson! No, I’m just not a paranoid nutcase who thinks the Muslims are all so unified and monolithic that they simply must be doing Taqiya and want to trick us all. Even if they were all doing Taqiya, it is still our duty to reach out to them in love and respect with the Gospel – all of them, including Dr. Qadhi. Not to bomb the Kaaba or wage a crusade against them (like some people want); but to reach out to them with the Good News, contrary to this entire article. And that might mean building uncompromising friendships along the way, to prepare the ground for evangelism; but its what Christians have been doing for a long time and will continue to do.

  • Gary Sanning

    Dr. Spaulding is not talking about “witnessing Christ” to a muslim being wrong…he’s saying embracing and welcoming their ideology as valid is wrong. Didn’t you people actually READ this article?! The Scripture says “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel.”…it also says “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?” Therein lies the distinction that I believe Dr. Spaulding is making.

    • Jim Blainey

      And what we’re saying is he has failed to demonstrate that James White is “embracing and welcoming their ideology.”

      He shows a short 27 second snippet.

      We’re saying, go watch the full video, or any of the dozens of other videos James White has made over the years that shows he does not affirm that view.

      • Gary Sanning

        That 27 second “snippet”, as you call it, is telling enough. Compromise is compromise…even if it only lasts 27 seconds. I’ll refer you back to Scripture: “What communion does light have with darkness?” That imam is an unrepentant muslim hater of Christians and Jews. Remind me again why he should be sitting on the stage, getting ready to preach his twisted, satanic ideology in a Christian venue?!

        • Jim Blainey

          More assertions. Prove it from the original sources.

          • Gary Sanning

            Obviously, James White “disciples”. There are none so blind as those who are willfully blind.
            From the book, Useful Definitions:
            ACOLYTE…all the religion, half the calories.
            I’m done trying to show reason…I’ll allow you to have the last word (I won’t read it, but it’ll make you feel better, I’m sure).

          • AndyTGD

            Yeah, this coming from a man whose comment history is almost entirely alt-right-esque, unChristian vitriol and hate? Jesus and the Apostles wouldn’t be hurling around statements like “Why so angry, Cubby…molested by a priest?” and misrepresenting a dialogue which they clearly have not even watched.

          • Jim Blainey

            My last word will be the same as my first word: Prove it.

            If the truth was on your side you would have no problem proving just one of your many assertions.

        • Ariel

          Gary your not understanding the 27 clip, James is not tellimng people to compromise and accept Islamic teaching. If you have actually listened to any of DR white discussions and debates you would learn that by listening to those outside of the Christian faith you understand where they are coming from and then can apply the proper apologetic to dismantle their arguments/worldveiw.

          When we listen to Atheists vs Muslims we use a different set of arguments to engage each one respectively. Bu listening to people from where they are at or coming from you gain their trust and you can further the dialogues.

          It was also billed as a dialogue and not him “preaching” as you suggest. This in Christ wont be effected by the Imams teaching.

  • SolaD

    You do NOT entertain evil. You are NOT to put an antiChrist in the pulpit. You do NOT ‘share’ in any enterprise with pagans. The scriptures 2 Cor. 6:14 and 2 JOhn 9-11 have been eliminated in White and Johnson’s Bibles. This is total compromise. OF Course the gospel must be preached and presented to the lost but to ‘share’ and ‘learn’ from evil is completely unBiblical. This is craziness that any true, redeemed believer in Christ can not view this enterprise are Biblically wrong. People are standing up for their favorite man-idol rather than God’s Word. It is similar to Catholics who revere their priest over God’s Word of a Jew who will ask what his rabbi says over looking into his Old Testament. Now we have people with all confidence in the man; James White over the Lord’s command for the light to have nothing to do with darkness. ‘Thou art the Man’ syndrome. What a grievous time this is. This is NOT missionary work whatsoever.

    • Ariel

      You dont understand Missionary work or how to reach the lost do you. In order to dismantle their arguments whether it be Athiestic or Islmaic you need to hear where they are coming from to properly engage them. Also by having a dialogue it takes everyone’s guards down and creates a far better environment to be respectful and peaceful which helps in dialogue with each other on the matter of truth.

      How has Dr White compromised when he proclaims the entirety of the gospel. Did you listen to the 2 part series or watch any of his debates ? If not you have no grounds to speak on this issue.

      • SolaD

        Where does scripture state to study an antichrist religion in order to present the gospel? verse please? Read Eph. 6:17 You underestimate the power of the gospel. I don’t think you listened to this ‘enterprise’. Did Jesus ‘dialogue’ and learn from the Pharisees? Did he ‘reason’ and debate them? These are ’empty talkers’, “deceivers’ who are to be rebuked.”they are detestable, disobedient and unfit for anything good” – 1 Tim.1:15,16. God’s Word and in it; the gospel, is all sufficient. No other writings or lifestyle ‘engagement’ are required to preach the word. “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ” Col. 2:8

        • Jim Blainey

          I see you’re writing in English, you compromiser.

          • SolaD

            “Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, no stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of Scoffers.” Psalm 1:1

        • AndyTGD

          When someone starts going full Steven Anderson – denying the need to actually read and study an opponent’s worldview to represent them truthfully – you know you’ve hit a brick wall. Actually, as it happens, Paul was very well acquainted with the Greek poets and quotes a poem initially about Zeus. Tell me SolaD, was Paul a very naughty boy for actually knowing something about an antichrist religion and using it to present the Gospel?

          • SolaD

            ‘antichrist’ is “antichrist’ -again you demean the power of the gospel alone. So, Paul added to the gospel in order for God to call a man to repentance? ‘think not! Man needs to help God?

          • AndyTGD

            No, Paul clearly utilized his knowledge of the Greek poets and their worldview to present the Gospel. Was Paul wrong to do this? Should Paul have just quoted from the Tanakh and ignored what they actually believed? You know your position is ultimately indefensible, here. Which is why you are obfuscating.

          • SolaD

            “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding…” Pro. 3:5 , Prov. 28:26. Seems you’re confused on what God’s Word states in 2 Cor. 6:14 and 2 John 9-11. “…If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, Do Not receive him into your House, and Do Not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.” God’s house and God’s pulpit is NO place for antiChrist.

          • AndyTGD

            Can you answer a straight question? Is that actually possible? And how is any of that relevant to my question? We believe in Tota Scriptura and a really obvious part of the Scriptura is that Paul is doing the exact opposite of what you propose – he is learning his opponents’ worldviews. How are verses about being yoked together to form binding partnerships – especially marital ones – relevant to an uncompromising discussion of our positions and actually correcting misapprehensions? If you think this seriously can be extended to completely ostracizing unbelievers and shirking our call to witness in reverence and love, you are very much mistaken. Likewise, 2 John is in the context of false teachers teaching in the local body (in house churches) – it cannot be expanded to ostracizing unbelievers (as most commentators note) and is irrelevant to a dialogue where the Christian participants are fully aware that the other side is wrong and is merely outlining what -they- believe, so as to better critique it and offer the Gospel. It certainly does not come close to suggesting that we ought to avoid studying our opponents’ beliefs – which was the contested point you’re ignoring.

          • SolaD

            Clearly you do not understand the context of 2 John 9-11. An Imam- a “false teacher” is speaking in the house of the Lord and the assembling of the local church. With this, it IS a local church with pastors and elders presence with ‘fellowship’ afterwards- a local body issue! Therefore the Iman should not have been present. The preaching of the gospel is a DECLARATION and NOT a Discussion. The preaching of the gospel is done in the power of the Spirit. 1 Cor.2. White submitted himself to the authority of the Imam at the beginning of the ‘discussion’ by stating his utmost respect ;you honor us”, raising the Imam over himself. Christ does not submit to false teachers and the spirits behind them. WE do NOT submit to false teachers and the spirits behind them. Gal.1:8

          • AndyTGD

            Oh, so if a non-Christian comes into the worship service on Sunday I should boot him out, right? Just to be consistent. If someone has specific issues which colours their view of Christianity in some obscure little cult, I would wait until someone eventually comes out of that cult and ask them? Rather than just, y’know… asking that person, while witnessing to them.

            You won’t let John define what “false teacher” means. In context, these are apostates teaching Christological heresies. Muslims do not name the name of Christ, nor have they ever, and therefore, they don’t fall under this category of false teacher, as defined by John. Qadhi – despite your wacky assertions – was not authoritatively teaching any more than he would be been in a debate setting. Folks were there to learn what Qadhi believed, so as to better understand him and people like him (you know, like Paul with the Greeks, which you keep ignoring) – not to learn a truth apart from or overriding Christianity. Nobody was under any illusions about that – his is a false set of beliefs.

            There was no worship service; no reading of the Scriptures from the pulpit, no breaking of bread in the Sacrament. The fellowship was hospitality, not the kind Christians have as brothers and sisters in Christ. What was had was a friendly – but uncompromising – discussion of both positions, actually correcting the Islamic understanding of the Trinity, for instance. Your argument – that a group of Christians cannot come together and engage in a discussion with an Imam or ask him what he believes – is not only unBiblical, it is quite insane. Let me ask you something? Do you want Yasir Qadhi to be saved? Do you think God can save him? Be honest now.

          • Denise Grimes

            Discussing points of theology as a perspective is what White did. It was merely an academic exercise with the goal of finding what the two groups have in common & to find help from the Muslims in the fight against our supposed secular society. Anyone can talk about that. Preaching the Gospel through conviction (not a perspective but as absolute Truth) and the power of the Spirit is entirely different and that did not happen that night.

            I find it ironic that you admit there was no preaching of the Word. So how else can Christ be proclaimed? What says Scripture:

            Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

            Rom 10:16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?”
            Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. <===

          • AndyTGD

            “Discussing points of theology as a perspective is what White did. It was merely an academic exercise with the goal of finding what the two groups have in common & to find help from the Muslims in the fight against our supposed secular society. ”

            Now you are just plain lying about an elder in the Church and his motivations. Incidentally, I was referring to the formal reading of Scripture during a service – not quoting from it during the discussion, which Dr. White most definitely did. Tell me, when did you last preach to a Muslim?

          • Denise Grimes

            Yes, everyone who’s presenting Scripture and testing White and the imam are all lying. That’s all you have Andy. You are full of accusations that fail the test of truth. You accuse the biblical Christians with discernment but have yet to stand on Scripture. You keep on with your fleshly, man-centered, ungodly, unbiblical, pragmatic, fanboy diatribe. The more you talk, the more you condemn yourself before the Holy One of Israel.

          • AndyTGD

            You didn’t answer my question – when did you last preach to a Muslim? Never, I should imagine. Where do you live precisely? I imagine a Bible Belt area. Am I correct? Let me ask a further question – do you want Yasir Qadhi to be saved? Do you think God can save him? Be honest now.

            I stood on Scripture, rebutting the nonsense you and your cohort spouted regarding Christians avoiding reading and studying an opponent’s worldview to represent them truthfully. All you have are circular assertions that Christians cannot have friendships with or have ‘fellowship’ (i.e. tea and bickies) with unbelievers. I have consulted commentaries, you have merely made assertions. May God forgive you for the damage you are doing to this man’s ministry; out of a paranoid fear of Muslims.

          • Jim Blainey

            “Can you answer a straight question?”

            In my experience, no.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            So White should start downloading kiddie porn so he knows how to reach pedophiles? Going by your logic (or lack thereof).

          • AndyTGD

            Yeah, except pedophilia isn’t a religion or worldview with a set of propositional statements which can be analyzed and responded to. Nice category error Mr. Logic. Do YOU want to tell me where Paul, John and the Church Fathers all learned about their opponents from? Seriously going to suggest they all learned about it from Christians? LOL

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Sure it is. There are entire organizations with official statements made up. Where do you see the apostles studying up on paganism in order to address it? You don’t. It takes only the preaching of the Word to convert someone. One need not dwell in darkness in order to dispel it. One only need to shed light. James White is still grappling in the dark.

          • AndyTGD

            How do you know these statements exist? Were you reading them? Paul clearly read the work of a Greek Stoic poet about Zeus (!), Paul utilizes the proto-Gnostics’ own language against them and John was well versed in Greek philosophy. The Church Fathers clearly read Pagan opponents’ work, interacted with and argued against them. Justin Martyr even engaged in inter-faith dialogue with a Jew named Trypho. Do I really need to go on? You can choose to ignore all of this if you want and pretend that the early church was fideistic like you, but they weren’t.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You do know Paul was educated, don’t you? Of course he would know poetry! But how can you equate poetry with a hateful political ideology that seeks to master the world and slaughter anyone who loves God? You cannot name a single case where it is documented that the disciples studied paganism. In fact, the Bible says not to talk about those things, and to not learn about them.

            I do know about such statements because a.) I was fortunate to receive an excellent education, and b.) because I did not grow up in a Christian environment, and c.) because God showed me them. He was training me for what would prove useful later in life.

          • AndyTGD

            Paul learned about a Stoic philosopher’s poems about his false god Zeus. He also knew about Christological heretics and their exact language. Both ideologies I remind you send people to ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. Not exactly a pleasant thing, regardless of how eloquent the Stoic was. Why is this so hard to grasp for you? Because Pagans and first century Jews wanted to murder him did not prevent him from knowing what they believed. The fact is that you’re stretching desperately for anything you can utilize to prevent people from learning about Islam in particular – but you won’t find it in the first century church. Instead you utilize an argument from silence to push your legalism, when there is plentiful evidence that they read their opponents. Even more evidence from their immediate successors – the church fathers, but surprisingly you don’t want to go there.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re making up all sorts of fables now and doing mental gymnastics in order to justify James White’s heresy. Why is that? Why do you love James White and his false doctrine over Jesus Christ who bled and died for you?

          • AndyTGD

            Nope, I just love the truth and the idea that the apostles and church fathers didn’t learn from their opponents is not the truth. Sorry you are too blind to see that or actually respond with argumentation.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You are making up things about godly men. You have no Biblical support for your false claims. Don’t tell me you went to the same mail order school James White did? And I’m not being mean or insulting. I sincerely want to know.

          • AndyTGD

            I do, you just don’t want to believe it. “I’m not being mean or insulting.” Sure you’re not! Poisoning the well – another fallacy, man you’re really adding these up.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Where is your Biblical support then? Show, from Scriptures, one instance of one of the apostles inviting a pagan to explain paganism to a formally assembled group of people.

          • Jim Blainey

            Best not mention that Jude quoted from the apocryphal book of Enoch.

          • SolaD

            Did he quote to it as scripture or historical source? How is that equivolent to putting a muslim in the pulpit?

          • Jim Blainey

            Why do you elevate a man-made tradition (a pulpit) with the Word of God? Repent of your idolatry!

          • SolaD

            Wow.. pompous. Prideful. “Repent and believe the gospel!” Mark 1:15

          • SolaD

            You clearly do not read what God states in 2 Cor. 6:14 and 2 John 9-11. How dare you accuse. Rev.12:10. May the Lord convict you of your errors. ’nuff said to you on here.. your ears do not hear and you are enticed by men who place devils within the Lord’s House and brethren gathering together. Again.. the pulpit is no place for the devil. If that is o.k. with you, nothing more needs to be stated. (I’m confident you will stay on to continue your false comments and accusations)

        • SolaD

          and I add this, “Do Not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, What is Good and Acceptable and Perfect.”Rms. 12:2 — Praying the Lord might reveal these truths to you.

          • Jim Blainey

            Ariel made a good point about you not understanding missionary work. If I may ask you an honest question, how would you share the gospel with a Mormon? (I assume you believe Mormon’s aren’t true Christians.) If you just said “Repent and believe” or went through the Romans Road, they would affirm that. They know the Bible and use the same words as Christians, like God, Jesus, grace, salvation, etc. But they have vastly different definitions for those terms. So how would you share the Gospel with a Mormon without studying what they believe or pointing out the contradicting definitions?

          • SolaD

            You don’t bring them into your church for a lesson on their false teachings. You don’t give them the pulpit. You don’t sit there in silence ‘honoring them’. You can get information on what they believe from those who have come out of it but you do NOT put a false teacher in the pulpit.. duh. You do not indoctrinate yourself with their apostasy.

          • Jim Blainey

            You answered a lot of questions I didn’t ask, and ignored the one I did. How would you share the gospel with Mormons? Would you contextualize your gospel presentation to specifically contrast the gospel with particular Mormon doctrine? Does contextualization mean “God needs your help” or “you underestimate the gospel”?Would you just tell them “Repent and believe,” and leave it at that?

          • Jim Blainey

            In response to the answers you gave to the questions I did not ask, I agree that you shouldn’t “give them the pulpit,” which I interpret as never giving any false teacher the central position of authority that is reserved for the proclamation of God’s Word during corporate worship.

            I’m sure you know the adage “the church is the people, not the building,” but I would add that neither Jesus, nor the apostles, nor any Christian for the first 300 years of church history ever stood in the pulpit at the front of the church, Pulpits and church buildings are both man-made traditions that developed centuries later. Even today there are churches that meet without such traditions. I’ve visited churches that meet in school cafeterias, YMCAs, and movie theaters. During corporate worship, the preacher stands at the front behind a podium and preaches the Word. But once he’s done, the podium gets packed up until next week. Nobody considers the place he stood to be a sacred space outside of the designated corporate worship time, so why should a church building be any different.

            That’s my opinion on the human tradition of having a pulpit at the front of a church building. You may disagree and have a different set of rules for the building where your church meets for corporate worship, but being as this is a human tradition that postdates the completion of the canon and the foundation of the church by a couple of centuries, I fail to see how this can rise to a primary doctrine worthy of separating from other believers over.

            In regards to the event in question, it was advertised as a discussion between a Muslim and a Christian, not corporate worship. It didn’t take place on a Sunday morning. It required a ticket to get in. There was no pulpit. Neither man stood, and there was constant back and forth, no “preaching” or extended monologue from one side. James White clearly stated the purpose of the event at the beginning, and proclaimed the Gospel to Qadhi and the other Muslims in the room throughout the event. And the entire stated purpose of the event was to discuss the differences between the two belief systems. It accomplished this goal. (And for the record, the camera doesn’t move to show the audience or the rest of the room, so while they are on a stage, I’m not sure it was even in the same location that the pulpit stands during corporate worship.)

        • Denise Grimes

          Totally agree. Paul didn’t spend hours and hours reading doctrines of demons to “get to know the belief systems” of all he encountered. He didn’t indoctrinate himself like White did. Rather, he preached the Gospel in the open air which is why the philosophers heard him. The instruction is to preach the biblical Christ of the biblical Gospel, in the power of the Spirit (1Cor. 2).

          1Co 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
          1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

          Using pragmatism and humanism and other philosophies to “reach” the lost is contrary to Scripture. That is NOT how the lost can come to know Christ as 1 Cor. 1:20-21 clearly states.

          • AndyTGD

            So, you’re just going to ignore his use of Greek poetry. The fact that he understood their worldview. The fact that John utilizes a philosophically-loaded term ‘Logos’, clearly showing a great deal of technical knowledge in the Grecco-Roman discussions during his day of the word and its application in their thought. No, lets just bury our heads like good little fundamentalists in the sand and ignore the facts of the matter. We don’t need to know what they, personally, believe from their own mouths – we can get conspiracy-theorist crazies to tell us! lol

          • Marty

            Correct. Plato either invented or popularized the word logos. I believe God was preparing culture for the coming divine revelation. Thus, God used the pagan philosophers. He is sovereign, large, and in charge.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Greek poetry is not the equivalent of a pagan religion that preaches death to Jews and Christians.

          • AndyTGD

            How do you know that Islam is a pagan religion that preaches death to Jews and Christians? You’re a Fundy ignoramus who hasn’t even read the sources and Islamic commentaries on the sources. Or have you? I mean, you erroneously (and insanely) compare reading the Greek poets to child pornography, so I’m assuming at this point that you’ve never actually read anything for yourself and just mindlessly nod along with what men like Brannon Howse tell you.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Wow. More false accusations there. I come from a family with Muslims. I witness to Muslims all the time. I know the Qur’an and so do the men who have called out James White on his heresy. There are plenty of former Muslims who have converted to Christ who are upset with what James White is doing.

          • AndyTGD

            Good, I am really grateful that you’re doing this. Of course, I have to take your word for it, but I’ll show you more courtesy than you have done to White. Most of his accusers are not themselves Muslim and have never been. Most, in fact, are American fundamentalists. As a former Muslim, I would have thought you would have appreciated someone preaching the Gospel in a Mosque. Quite tragic.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Those who are speaking out against White are either former Muslims, or those who work evangelizing Muslims. Howse is one of them. You should research this before typing your posts. You really come across as quite ignorant and judgmental. I don’t mean to be harsh with you, but truth is a friend.

          • AndyTGD

            “You really come across as quite ignorant and judgmental. I don’t mean to be harsh with you, but truth is a friend.”

            Says the man who doesn’t actually appear to have watched the dialogues, or the recent Dividing Line and who prides himself on a pious ignorance of other people’s worldviews (from their own mouths, of course). Ok. I don’t mean to be harsh with you, but truth is a friend.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’re falsely accusing me again. White is not coming across well at all in this. In fact, today some Muslims are cheering White on, saying he’s okay with Islam and there’s nothing wrong in continuing to practice it. Wouldn’t it be a shame if White’s rhetoric is a direct catalyst to more Christians being killed?

          • AndyTGD

            Oh, so you have watched the full dialogues etc? Because you won’t actually tell me, I have to make assumptions – that isn’t falsely accusing someone ‘Guest’. And what is your name? You know mine, but I haven’t a clue who you are and that is difficult.

            Anyone can misrepresent people. Unscrupulous Muslim apologists will say that. They’ll also point to the dumpster fire which is Brannon Howse’s feud and say that it represents a lack of unity and use that apologetically. Guess Brannon shouldn’t have started WW3.

            “Wouldn’t it be a shame if White’s rhetoric is a direct catalyst to more Christians being killed?”

            You know that is ridiculous. You’re better than that.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I don’t know your name. You have a first name which may or may not be fake, and no last name. I won’t put my name on the internet because I work with Muslims and do not want to endanger anyone needlessly.

            If you knew what Muslims were saying about White’s and Qadhi’s event, you would not label my comment ridiculous. If you had any sense, you would tremble.

          • AndyTGD

            I’m not going to tremble because I’m not a paranoid nutcase who thinks an inter-faith talk is going to lead to death. Sorry if you’ve been worked up into such a hysteria that you do.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You are quite mistaken if you believe mixing religions does not lead to death. What James White is promoting is Chrislam. He may be so deceived that he might not even realize he’s doing it. It’s quite the false movement now, and James White appears to be swept up in it. Shame.

            I believe White tried to emulate Dr. Michael Brown’s Jewish rabbi dialogues. The difference is that Dr. Brown hold a real doctorate, is a respected academic and scholar, and that there is actual common ground between Jews and Christians. I know that Dr. Brown supports James White, and I respect Dr. Brown, but vehemently disagree with the stand he’s taken.

          • Jim Blainey

            How do you know Paul didn’t read any of the writings of the Jewish and Gentile false teachers he refuted along his missionary journeys? What is the source of your extra-biblical revelation?

        • Marty

          Bingo of course Jesus dialogued with the Pharisees as Word incarnate pierced their hearts. Some chose to believe, some did not (free will). In Romans 1 Paul uses natural law arguements not unlike Aristotle, In Acts 17 he dialogues with pagans. The warnings you quote are to the church. Not how to outreach.

      • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        When is White going to do deep research into pedophilia so he can reach the lost? How about Satanism?

        • Ariel

          Your response is so childish, SO then, who is to be reached by your standard? Do you have a certain list of which people that are lost can or cant be reached ? I thought the gospel was for all to hear.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Everyone can be reached. No one is disputing that Muslims should not be reached out to. In fact, the very ones who are calling out James White are evangelists to Muslims, those who have risked their lives for the gospel.

            Show me one example from the Bible where the apostles called an assembly to have a pagan explain their paganism. Just one. You can’t because it didn’t happen.

            One need only shed light in order for the darkness to disappear. Preaching the gospel is how we shed that light, not navel grazing about that darkness.

            James White is in grave error and is only making it worse by attacking godly brothers in the Lord.

        • AndyTGD

          I’m sure there have been folks who have researched Satanism (mostly its just Secular anti-Theism these days, but there are still some crazies running around) and evangelize the lost in that system. Pedophilia isn’t a worldview or religion with a set of propositional statements and beliefs which can be analyzed and responded to; so nope. But you don’t want Christians to be educated or informed, do you? You know, like the Apostles and Early Church Fathers who read and responded to their opponents.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You clearly missed the point. Show me one example where the apostles called pagans before an assembly to discuss their paganism.

          • AndyTGD

            It wasn’t an assembly (i.e. church) it was a mixed audience of Muslims and Christians who wanted to turn up to a Church building to learn about Qadhi’s variant of Islam and, importantly, Christianity. I’d say that the second evening was the first time many of those people had been educated in what Christianity actually believes. most importantly, for many it was the first time they had been given the Gospel.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            What do you think an assembly is but a group of people assembled together. Why assemble a group together so a pagan who is on tape calling for the slaughter of Christians and Jews can explain his paganism? Why call him a “kindred spirit”?

            If you think what James White did was Christianity, then you have a sad definition – and a false one – of what it really is.

          • AndyTGD

            I’m getting tired of responding to this over and over again. Firstly he called him a “kindred spirit” in the sense that both men seek consistency. This was mentioned in the dialogue. Have you watched the dialogues? You don’t sound like you have. Both of them, the originals – not via Brannon Howse. Secondly, why have an event where a bunch of people come together to learn? Because you want to reach out to men like Qadhi, because you want to be an instrument in God’s hands. I’m sorry you don’t recognize this, but this is the Christianity of the Church Fathers, of the Apostles and I’m sorry you find it ‘sad’.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Pedophiles seek consistency. So do Satanists. How about catholics? Mormons are right up there too. Are they James White’s kindred spirits?

          • AndyTGD

            Yes, if someone is also seeking consistency and you are, then that is a similar attribute which makes you kindred on that *one* aspect. I’m sorry you’re too blind to understand.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I do not have a kindred spirit with anyone who does not worship Jesus Christ. Neither should you.

          • AndyTGD

            Ok, have fun in that ghetto.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Is that what you call the mission field?

    • Ramon Noens

      SolaD: Have you watched both videos? Have you watched any of James White’s debates on Islam? Have you read his book on Islam? You are seriously misrepresenting a brother in Christ. I say it again, have you watched BOTH presentations?

      • SolaD

        YES.

        • AndyTGD

          Then you will know that both dialogues were uncompromising, the Gospel was preached to the Muslim people and their misapprehensions were painstakingly and accurately corrected. You will know that this was no ‘spiritual enterprise’ – but a dialogue involving the discussion of what *both* sides actually believe. Not unlike a similar event which Sam Shamoun thought was beneficial (at least, before he changed recently).

          • SolaD

            Nope.. sorry.. no giving place to the devil. Maybe someone was won to Islam through the dialogue?

          • AndyTGD

            Oh, so we just leave all those Muslims to go to Hell. Okay. Just ignore what they actually believe. Because apparently, we can’t listen to one of them talking. Because, y’know… fundamentalism. Oh, by the way, where is our witnessing dependent on how many folks get saved on the night?

          • SolaD

            ha! You clearly to not ‘listen’. Preach the what? the history of Islam? the practices of Islam? NO! “PREACH THE GOSPEL’.. nothing added, nothing needed- all sufficient. period.

          • AndyTGD

            Well, Paul didn’t agree with you – he used his knowledge of Greek poetry about false gods to convey the Gospel. He knew exactly what they believed and used it to converse with them. I’ll follow Paul, you have fun over there in your tiny fundy ghetto; unable to interact with the world around you. 😉

          • SolaD

            Sure.. mockery of me. White put an unbeliever in the pulpit. period. Eph. 4:29

          • AndyTGD

            He didn’t put an unbeliever ‘in the pulpit’. You are a liar, sir. There is a completely different context to someone who has an unbeliever authoritatively teach as if it is the truth and a person who has a casual discussion on a week night, in a church *building*, with people who have all been made very aware that there will be uncompromising disagreement and this is for the purpose of better understanding his false position. Your problem is not the pulpit, as we keep noting – you state that Christians should not be learning from unbelievers period. Which is insane and unbiblical. It goes far, far beyond the alleged pulpit issue.

          • Denise Grimes

            That was indeed a church and chosen for that very reason, or else they could’ve met at a hotel for both nights. It’s the same reason they chose the mosque–both were gatherings of different religions. Besides that, the flier made by the church invited for “fellowship” afterwards and without a doubt elders from the church were there as well, along with many Christians, so yes, it was a church setting, not just a building. “Fellowship” can only happen between Christians.

          • AndyTGD

            It is a building – please stop with your idolatry of it. While you’re at it stop equivocating over the word ‘fellowship’.

          • Denise Grimes

            LOL Idolatry. I pointed out very clearly what it was and WHY they chose a church instead of a hotel building–precisely because it was an assemblying of the saints there under the leadership of elders. No doubt there was prayer too. “Fellowship” is the word the church used in relation to that gathering and it is a word used in Scripture ONLY FOR Christians.

          • Jim Blainey

            Yep. Pulpits and church buildings are man-made traditions invented centuries after the church began. There was no pulpit on the stage. Neither man was at the center. Both were seated for the entire discussion. There was no Quran on the stage. It was back and forth the whole time, no monologues. It was a ticket event, and they clearly stated from the outset that the purpose was to discuss their differences.

            One would have to be absolutely ignorant of Christian corporate worship to confuse this “giving him the pulpit”. Good point about idolatry. Blinded by human traditions.

          • Denise Grimes

            Moreover he didn’t silence him as 1Tim. 1 states to do. He has a “kindred spirit” with the Muslim lying imam as if he’s seeking truth. He’s not. He came to do some PR work (a la CAIR) for gullible Westerners who soaked it up like lambs to the slaughter thinking they’re going to get some good food. Truth and error were treated as equally credible, just take your pick. White repeatedly talked about his “perspective”. Biblical truth isn’t a perspective, it’s a FACT.

          • AndyTGD

            No, he is a ‘kindred spirit’ with the Imam in the sense that both men are seeking *consistency*. You do know what the Scripture teaches about people who bear false testimony, right? There’s only one person I see here right now who is lying through their teeth and it isn’t Qadhi.

          • Denise Grimes

            Thou art the man.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Muslims won’t be saved by a compromised, mamby pamby gospel like James White preaches. He has done more harm than good.

          • AndyTGD

            Nice assertion, but there was explicitly no compromise. But you define ‘compromise’ as just listening to your opponent define his own beliefs – which is insane and alien to evangelism outside tiny Fundamentalist ghettos in the United States of America.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            There you go again with the vulgar mouth, but at least you are now forthcoming with your hatred for Christians. Good that others can see the disguise slipping and see what this is all about. The same thing happened in Nazi Germany. The false Christians helped Hitler along and were his useful idiots. The remnant who were the real thing, stayed true and close to the Lord.

          • AndyTGD

            lol, Nazi Germany – what are you blithering about? You do know you’re talking to someone with a BA in Modern History, specializing in European History, Weimar and Nazi Germany, right? I’m not the one siding with nationalists who want to deport or place horrible restrictions on a minority group in the US, here. Think about that, please. And my speech has not been vulgar – unless you consider calling insanity ‘insanity’ (i.e. the view that actually listening to the views of your specific opponent is wrong or unChristian).

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It’s a pity you don’t know more about Germany’s history, particularly church history. The “church” was used by Hitler to push his hateful agenda. The true Christians, who were few in number, opposed him. Many paid for their stand with their lives.

            As far as your slur about nationalism, do you not realize that the Bible is okay with nationalism? Why do you think the tower of Babel was built, and why do you think God destroyed it and gave each man his own language?

            No one wants to deport minorities for being minorities. The government has the God-given responsibility to keep its people safe. You are confusing invaders and law breakers with lawful refugees and strangers. I actually work amongst minorities, immigrants, and strangers. Do you? Do you feed them, clothe them, help them with medical care, learning the language, and the laws of the land? I notice those who speak the most about minorities are the ones who often do nothing for them. That’s called hypocrisy.

          • AndyTGD

            Actually, I’m very well aware of this, having written a term paper on the subject of religion in Nazi Germany. I think its not remotely analogous to what White and supporters of the dialogue are doing – actually, I would say that it is the side represented by Brannon Howse who most closely represents the churches in National Socialist Germany. What I see is a lot of projection going on here and that is scary.

            “No one wants to deport minorities for being minorities.” <– I didn't say that. Neither did Hitler. They scapegoated and removed minorities who were perceived as being dangerous to the social fabric. Incidentally, before the Final Solution there had been a suggestion to mass-deport Jews to Madagascar. This wasn't done because they were minorities, it was done because the populace had whipped itself into hysteria believing that the Jews were universally dangerous and alien to the prevailing culture (i.e. Germanic culture). I've been carefully watching the kind of folks Brannon is retweeting, many of them subscribe to a similarly hysterical mindset regarding Islam and Muslims, tragically.

            "I notice those who speak the most about minorities are the ones who often do nothing for them. That's called hypocrisy." And another tu quoque fallacy. You love that fallacy, don't you? Seems very popular among Brannon's followers, for some reason. I said it wasn't valid when you used it against White (i.e. why don't you go to Syria if you love Muslims?) and it isn't valid now either.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’m sorry, but the fact that you think that writing a term paper makes you an expert on any subject, let alone the church in Germany and WWII, is sad. You sound like James White, who considers himself an expert on everything, but can’t even manage rudimentary Hebrew or Greek.

          • AndyTGD

            Yeah, studying something does mean one is qualified to speak on the subject. Note you don’t respond to what I said. You rarely do.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Do you really think that’s some big academic feat – a paper? Seriously?

          • AndyTGD

            No, its part of a whole degree. And years of study, including in my private time. Wow, you really are anti-intellectual. Did you even go to university?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I started university when I was 14 years old. I skipped a bunch of grades. A BA isn’t a big degree in the world of academia. It’s the most basic one.

          • AndyTGD

            And yet your qualifications in this subject matter are exactly… none. So you would be wise to tread extremely carefully and stop making foolish statements.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Again, you are making false assumptions. You judge without any kind of understanding because you go by a system and a man, not by Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit. Repent.

          • AndyTGD

            Oh really? Do you have a degree in Modern History? Or are you going to lie some more?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I haven’t lied at all. Look, no offense, but you can’t equate writing a paper to being a WWII expert, particularly since it sounds like you might have studied under an unaccredited doctor like James White.

          • AndyTGD

            lol, is that all you have? James White’s doctorate? Have you even read his work? I bet not given your tone. His work on the Trinity is extremely good – an essential book. Even David Wood has a copy on his reading shelf. His book on Islam is great too; recommended by Sam Shamoun as I recall. But no, you just keep on banging that silly drum. Gotta ignore all his work to make the idiosyncratic heretic claim stick, right?

            FYI, my experience in this field of study means that I can and will correct you when you say uninformed things about it. There’s always someone with more experience, granted. But that someone, in this particular field, is not you. Since you refuse to answer my question (a running theme) I’m going to assume you haven’t any experience studying in that field. And my qualification is accredited at a major British university btw. Just in case you want to try and discredit my work by those sleazy, ad-hominem tactics.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Yeah, I’ve read his stuff. I’ve had some association with him for about 10 years, perhaps a little bit more. If he gets anything right, it’s because he’s copied it from someone else. He does that a lot. He’s currently trying to copy Dr. Brown’s debates and dialogues with the Jewish community with his own (James White’s) dialogue with Qadhi.

            Frankly, White has no credibility. I have been watching him for some time because I expected a fall to come. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

            You may have a BA (sorry, but that’s not an impressive feat), but let’s pretend you have 10,000 Ph.D’s. That still doesn’t make what you said right. You are very, very ignorant of how Hitler used the church to gain power. That’s probably why you support James White. Only the uninformed get taken in by his dog and pony show.

          • AndyTGD

            “If he gets anything right, it’s because he’s copied it from someone else.”

            Like Augustine, Aquinas, Calvin, Luther – basically everyone in Church History who built upon someone else’s work or format. But you’re not very well versed on that subject, so that’s not surprising.

            “That’s probably why you support James White. Only the uninformed get taken in by his dog and pony show.”

            lol, oh you’re SO informed. You’ve demonstrated that in spades with your inability to tell heresy from non-heresy. Or how all the Saints build upon eachother’s work. I don’t think you’ve even been schooled in the faith by someone even half-balanced. Apparently you know better than brothers who have endorsed his work and didn’t see the train-wreck of a heretic.

            “You are very, very ignorant of how Hitler used the church to gain power.”

            I don’t deny it and in fact recognize it – I think you’ve got it exactly backwards. The useful idiots are the folks who buy into Brannon Howse’s political agenda and stoke paranoid hysteria against the Muslim people as a whole. The only difference is that I won’t call you or Brannon ‘false Christians’.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Why did Paul then say that he did not build upon other men’s works?

            And why are you comparing a godly brother who has faced death threats for evangelizing Muslims to Hitler? Shame on you!

            Look, I know you’re from Ireland and hardly have any idea who these people are (Howse, for one, and his former Muslim, now Christian co-workers), but I have given you a link that explains it. You are shameful for disparaging a godly brother. God won’t let that slide. He defends His own.

          • AndyTGD

            Wow eisegeis much? You think Paul was saying we can’t build upon other people’s work? I guess John was pure evil when he used the work of Greek philosophers during his explanation of THE TRINITY. Or the formulations of the Trinity by the Church Fathers, which also utilized such concepts.

            “And why are you comparing a godly brother who has faced death threats for evangelizing Muslims to Hitler? Shame on you!”

            LOL, its not so nice when the shoe is on the other foot, eh? But seriously, Howse et al are stoking paranoid hysteria against the Muslim people as a whole. Shame on me for pointing out the obvious and comparing it with the attitude of folks during the Third Reich. Btw, didn’t compare him with Hitler – you did. Can’t really play the victim after you launch the first salvo, y’know?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You clearly have no understanding about what John meant if you think that contradicts what Paul said.

            My analogy about the church during Hitler’s time and this time is accurate. Your name calling is merely invoking Godwin’s law. Tsk tsk.

            You should spend more time in the Word and less gaming. You sorely need it.

          • AndyTGD

            “Actually you don’t understand what John meant, but I’m not going to explain where you’re wrong as usual. I’m just going to assert it, because I have literally no come-back. But you’re the one who needs to spend more time in the word…” LOL

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You are the one who gave the false example. You lied. You lied about the Word of God. Why is that?

          • AndyTGD

            Oh sorry, I didn’t realize your flawed eisegesis just is the Word of God. All hail Pope Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You mock the Word of God, which is the ultimate authority, not you nor I, and certainly not heretic James White.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            White sat by like a useful idiot while Qadyi sputtered false claims. If you think that’s the gospel, I feel sorry for you.

          • AndyTGD

            No, he responded and pushed back strongly when Qadhi misrepresented things such as the Trinity and on the second night (they form one unit, as noted at the end of the first dialogue) presented the Gospel and rebutted Islamic views. I feel sorry that you never actually watched the dialogues and are acting as a useful idiot for men like Brannon Howse.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You have a strange view of what it means to contend for the faith. You also have a vulgar mouth which falsely accuses brethren who regularly risk their lives for the Lord. May the Lord see and act.

          • AndyTGD

            I turned your language – that of the ‘useful idiot’ around on you and you didn’t like it, did you? I know, its not nice. Maybe we should all not use it anymore, right? The Lord will see and act indeed, especially against those who shamefully stoke irrational fear and cripple evangelism. I have no problem with you, brother. This is about larger things than us.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I gave a direct quote. You, meanwhile, spewed hatred from your heart, a la James White. Do you not know how to think for yourself? Are you a cult follower? Is James White the next Jim Jones? Why are his followers so vulgar, hateful, and mean spirited?

          • AndyTGD

            Your projection quite amazing, I was very reasonable and even suggested you come and have a chat in prosapologian. But apparently, you just want to project Brannon’s nastiness onto everyone else. I thought you might be open to an honest discussion, but apparently not. You’re just a troll. Disappointing. The invitation still stands, if you can break free of Howse’s hold on your mind.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I haven’t been nasty towards you. I’ve been polite and stayed on topic. You have been wildly falsely accusing brethren who actually evangelize Muslims with all sort of made up claims. Why is that? Why do you have so much hate in your heart? And why are you obsessed with Howse? Do you have envy because he’s been used by the Lord? Why not start your own outreach to Muslims if that’s a burning desire of yours? Why not visit some Muslim countries and bring the gospel? Or just reach out in your neck of the woods?

  • Idahodoc

    Mike Spaulding could not be more wrong. So many erroneous applications of verses…

    OK, White is not marrying Qahdi, nor entering a business relationship. This was not some liberal love fest. If you would listen to Whites debates you would hear a clear statement of the Gospel. He is seeking respect by giving respect. The Christian audience was there for edification. Like other religions, I for one want to understand it. Qahdi is ideal for this because he is a conservative and thus believes all the things you say. So what! But if anyone wants to get to the heart of the matter one must understand their beliefs as they believe them, no some fantasy belief. Many muslims, especially conservatives are hungry for the Gospel. By a fair conversation some will be won.

    Spaulding is just portraying a side of Christianity that will never attract a convert. So sad. We need more people like Dr. White!!!!

  • Denise Grimes

    Muslims are allowed to lie to unbelievers in order to defeat them. There are several forms:

    Taqiyya – Saying something that isn’t true as it relates to the Muslim identity.

    Kitman – Lying by omission. An example would be when Muslim apologists quote only a fragment of verse 5:32 (that if anyone kills “it shall be as if he had killed all mankind”) while neglecting to mention that the rest of the verse (and the next) mandate murder in undefined cases of “corruption” and “mischief.”

    Tawriya – Intentionally creating a false impression.

    Muruna – ‘Blending in’ by setting aside some practices of Islam or Sharia in order to advance others.

    Though not called taqiyya by name, Muhammad clearly used deception when he signed a 10-year treaty with the Meccans (known as Hudaibiya) that allowed him access to their city while he secretly prepared his own forces for a takeover. The unsuspecting residents were conquered in easy fashion after he broke the treaty two years later. Some of the people in the city who had trusted him at his word were executed.

    Another example of lying is when Muhammad used deception to trick his personal enemies into letting down their guard and exposing themselves to slaughter by pretending to seek peace. This happened in the case of Ka’b bin al-Ashraf (as previously noted) and again later against Usayr ibn Zarim, a surviving leader of the Banu Nadir tribe, which had been evicted from their home in Medina by the Muslims.

    Such was the reputation of early Muslims for lying and then killing that even those who “accepted Islam” did not feel entirely safe. Consider the fate of the Jadhima. When Muslim “missionaries” approached their tribe, one of the members insisted that they would be slaughtered even though they had already “converted” to Islam to avoid just such a demise. However, the others believed they could trust the Muslim leader’s promise that they would not be harmed if they simply offered no resistance. (After convincing the skeptic to lay down his arms, the unarmed men of the tribe were quickly tied up and beheaded – Ibn Ishaq 834 & 837).

    ~ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/taqiyya.aspx

  • Jonathan

    Dr. Spaulding, have you ever shared the Gospel in a MOSQUE? I didn’t think so. So, what fruit can you show us from your ministry evangelizing TO Muslims? That is what you do, isn’t it? You do have a heart for the lost don’t you?

    • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Why isn’t White sharing the gospel in Syria? Iran? Afghanistan? I mean if he loves Muslim and all.

      • AndyTGD

        Why aren’t you? If you feel a calling, like many brothers do, go to those places and evangelize.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          You are assuming I have not. The brothers whom James White and his followers are criticizing have, and live under constant death threats as a result.

          • AndyTGD

            Nobody has criticized such people, you have my word on that. Anyone who has attacked a brother living under that persecution is not my friend. There may have been instances where such a person has made a sweeping comment about the nature of Islam, but it is that concept which is open to debate. But never the man.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You clearly have no idea who Brannon Howse is, do you? Or the brothers who are either from Arab nations or are ex-Muslims now-converts to Christ themselves who are calling out James White, do you? Look up the story about the Muslim man who showed up at a conference with an arsenal of weapons and see who he was targeting and why. Then apologize.

          • AndyTGD

            Oh, so because a Muslim nutcase attacks Brannon Howse, that means we have to sit back and let him slander whoever he wants to, right? Because he is the innocent equivalent of a Christian missionary in Syria, right? Well, no. The man has created a raging internet dumpster fire which even Sam Shamoun is decrying! Stop playing the victim, stop defending a man who has misrepresented his opponents and lies about the Jesuits on conspiracy theory DVDs with Chris Pinto. Stop defending a man who is so insanely biased he couldn’t even listen to the dialogue without visceral noises of disgust on a live broadcast. Stop defending a man who has on guests who call White a heretic who needs to be sifted by Satan! Howse is in the wrong. If White had done the same thing I would be blaming him too. This is ridiculous, get a grip please.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Howse didn’t slander anyone. What he said is true. What former Muslims, now turned Christian evangelists, are saying about White is true as well. Howse is under death threats from Muslims all the time yet White supporters are threatening to dox him. Tell me how that is Christ-like? That I even have to explain this to you speaks volumes.

          • AndyTGD

            Sorry for your blindness.

            “White supporters are threatening to dox him.”

            Who? Names, posts. Go.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            It was on James White’s twitter feed. They also lied that Howse does not go to church. They know that Howse has gotten death threats from Muslims and that the FBI has been called in to investigate, yet they want to instigate more.

  • Magnus Husoy

    Let’s restate the title of this article: “Why would God want to reach out to a mankind that despises Him?”

    yeah… you get the point!

  • The title of this article makes it not worth reading. Is that a serious question?

    “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you” John 15:18-19

    If you have to ask this question, you are unqualified to be a minister of the Gospel.

  • Equalscale

    Why in the world would white want to reach out to a Muslim and share the gospel? Oh, I don’t know, have you heard of the great commission? It’s in a thing called the bible, which I’m positive you’ve never read.

    • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Yet he’s too afraid to go to Syria where the message is really needed.

      • AndyTGD

        What? The message wasn’t needed in London when he debated multiple times there on the subject? Where Islam is expanding rapidly? Your argument is about as valid as when an pro-abortion campaigner responds to ‘human beings ought not to be killed in the womb’ with ‘well, how many babies have you adopted lately?’ And by that, I mean completely invalid and silly.

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          The point is that James White is bad mouthing Christians who have actually gone into war torn areas and preached to Muslims, while feigning such love of Muslims that he is justified in slamming blood-bought brothers in the Lord. Shame on him.

          • AndyTGD

            Totally untrue, did you listen to his latest Dividing Line? Do it and you’ll see that this myth, spread by Howse, is an egregious lie.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Funny how so many James White supporters use the same inflammatory language that James White himself uses. I heard it. There is no myth spread by Howse. White, however, is quite another story. Shame on him. May God look and see and act.

          • AndyTGD

            I’ll take that as a ‘no’. Have fun then ‘guest’.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            My account is a signed-in disqus one just as yours is. And you shouldn’t lean on your own understanding. Lean on God’s.

          • AndyTGD

            So did you watch the Dividing Line and both full dialogues before condemning White?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I watched all of White’s and Qadhi’s dialogue, and follow up from the Muslim community, which was horrific for the gospel message. It did so much harm. It reminded me of the harm legalists and hateful people did to Native Indians in North America contrasted with the godly work David Brainerd did.

            I haven’t condemned White. That’s not my place. That’s up to God.

          • AndyTGD

            You just said he engaged in heresy, you hypocrite. And you’re also a liar then, since you utilized the ‘kindred spirit’ thing knowing the full context. My God have mercy on you for what you’re doing.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I still stand by my statement, that James White committed heresy and I do call for God to note my statement.

            James White has asked supporters to stop talking about this. Do you wonder why?

          • AndyTGD

            Then you are out of your mind and cannot tell the difference any more between the adiaphora and that which actually is heresy. You’re out of line, get back to your church and talk to your elders about this. Get help.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You’d probably condemn the apostle John for how he rebuked Diotrephes and the apostle Paul for how he handled the fornicator. My church elders are even more disgusted by James White’s behavior than I am, and so are the formerly-Muslim now-Christian converts in our congregation.

          • AndyTGD

            No, since those are explicit sins, whereas your assertions of sin on White’s part are entirely a product of your imagination, insane fideism, and uncritical absorption of Brannon Howse’s materials. Your church is in a pretty sorry state if it can’t tell the difference between adiaphora and that which actually is heresy. What denomination is your church?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Instead of false accusations, why don’t you pull up actual facts? You can’t because you have none.

            I have given you explicit Biblical examples. You have given none. You cannot pull one example where any of the apostles called an assembly and put a pagan up front, called him a kindred spirit, and then let him blather on about how Jesus Christ is not God’s Son. Shame on you.

            You are fixated on Brannon Howse, much like James White is. Why is that? Are you White under another name? One of his hapless students?

            The guy is not a real doctor. That’s why he’s seeking a do-over in South Africa. The guy doesn’t know proper Hebrew. You should hear the tittering and gasps of dismay from those who do whenever James White tries to wax verbose using his chopped up Hebrew. He gets it wrong every time. He frequently misuses big words, mispronounces them, too, and his latest attempt at throwing in a spattering of Arabic are even more sadly hilarious and pathetic at the same time.

            You sound like you are a follower of James White, not a follower of Jesus Christ. May you know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He hath sent.

          • AndyTGD

            “Instead of false accusations, why don’t you pull up actual facts? You can’t because you have none.”

            Projection.

            “Are you White under another name? One of his hapless students?”

            Paranoia.

            “The guy is not a real doctor. That’s why he’s seeking a do-over in South Africa.”

            Ad hominem, poisoning the well. Ignoring the textual work he’s doing and qualified to do.

            “You sound like you are a follower of James White, not a follower of Jesus Christ. May you know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He hath sent.”

            Projection.

            Anything else to add or are you going to waste everybody’s time some more?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Everything I have said is fact. If you feel you are wasting your time, just slink away. That’s what James White has asked his supporters to do.

          • AndyTGD

            Anyone with sense and eyes to see; who has looked at both sides and weighed up the evidence, can see that you’re talking nonsense. You keep believing that you’re making sense, as you go on your little Brannon ‘Jesuit Conspiracy DVDs and Survival Equipment Salesman’ Howse inspired witch-hunt. Bye bye.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            You are the only one bringing up Brannon Howse. Do you envy him? Do you wish you were him?

            You have not brought forth one single Bible verse that shows the apostles calling an assembly to “dialogue” with pagans and giving pagans an audience to push paganism all the while saying disgusting and blasphemous stuff about Jesus Christ. Oh, and after calling those pagans “mentors” and “kindred spirits”. Why is that?

            Do you know who Linda Sarsour is? Do you endorse James White’s association with her?

          • AndyTGD

            I didn’t even know who Howse was until his network aired the laughable Chris Pinto stuff about Codex Sinaiticus. I don’t envy a man who makes a reputation from conspiracy theories, mental survivalists and starting dumpster fires in a bid to gleefully destroy a brother in Christ. White has no ‘association’ with Sarsour, are you on crack?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            a.) Howse is known for evangelizing Muslims. He and his team have been in the news because a Muslim showed up with an arsenal of weapons and threatened a terrorist attack if they did not cancel their conference. God thwarted the attack. I gave you the link. Did you fail to read it? No wonder you are so confused.

            b.) Sarsour works with Qadhi. He is also her “mentor”. She is a follower of James White as well. How did you not know this?

          • AndyTGD

            a.) And? This doesn’t get you a ‘get out of jail free’ card when you start behaving like a sociopath and witch-hunting people. It doesn’t justify the conspiracy theories he’s spreading or the fear mongering he’s busy with.

            b.) “Sarsour works with Qadhi. He is also her “mentor”. She is a follower of James White as well. How did you not know this?” <– lol, because I'm not a conspiracy theorist NUTCASE who would link White to Sarsour via Qadhi, who is desperately aligning himself with anyone to protect himself and his community from paranoid anti-Muslim people. But just knowing someone or interacting with them means you share all their views right? Like how you interact with the Shoebats.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            a.) You are falsely accusing Howse of doing what you and White and his other fanatic zealots are doing.

            b.) You are clearly naïve. You have no clue who the players are in this incident, yet you keep blabbing on about it like you’re some sort of expert. LOL

          • AndyTGD

            Ok, cupcake.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            How’s it feel to be on Linda Sarsour’s team?

  • William Brown

    I wonder has anyone remembered these verses

    Romans 10:10-14
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    Philippians 1:15-18
    15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
    16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
    17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
    18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

    • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

      Christ wasn’t preached by word or example. White stood by like a useful idiot while a jihadist lectured a congregation on a pagan religion.

      • AndyTGD

        You’re a liar and a useful idiot for men like Howse. If White’s position is so easy to refute, why do Fundamentalists like you have to lie about the dialogues?

        • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

          See how quickly James White’s followers go into vulgar language and false accusations? Shame on you! “But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man”. (Matthew 15:18))

          • AndyTGD

            None of that was true, my anonymous friend. They are lies, whether you recognize it or not. Like I say, document how Christ wasn’t preached by word or example, if you feel confident that it is true.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I’ve seen obscenities, cuss words, lies, false accusations against the brethren, etc., all spread by James White’s followers. In fact, Christian News had to delete and even ban some of the posters’ comments, the very same posters who are supporting James White on this site.

            How does the Bible record the gospel should be preached? How did Stephen preach it? (read the sermon for which he was stoned to death). How about Peter? Paul? Did they call pagans “kindred spirits”? Allow them a meeting where they were allowed to say egregious things about Jesus Christ and sit back and say nothing? How about the second night when White spoke? How was the gospel presented? Did he mention the consequences of not accepting so great salvation? Did he present the gospel along the lines of Jonathan Edwards (Sinners in the Hands of An Angry God), or Charles Spurgeon who spoke about the dangers of hell fire, or George Whitefield, who wept when he told sinners they were going to go to hell if they didn’t repent?

          • AndyTGD

            Name one person. ONE person who used obscenities and cuss words. Name them or be revealed as a liar.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I can name two off the top of my head. The Jim Blainey guy and Paula Coyle. You can see where their comments were deleted.

          • AndyTGD

            I have no idea who those guys are. I’m sorry if they did that, they don’t represent us; not Christian behavior and we’d all be first to say it. Sam Shamoun forwarded extremely vulgar language also from Robert ‘Nuke the Kabaa’ Morey, but folks make mistakes. Thank God for grace. 🙂

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            They’re right on this thread defending James White. There were more people, but I don’t recall their names because they got all their posts removed when they were banned. White himself hasn’t exactly been an example of grace either.

          • AndyTGD

            “There were more people, but I don’t recall their names because they got all their posts removed when they were banned.”

            Convenient.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            All you need for my statement to be proven true is to have one person who made such a slur. I have given you the names of 2 such people, and you can go look on the website and see where comments of James White supporters were removed for vulgarity.

  • William Brown

    Actually a liitle more context to Philippians 1:10-20

    10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
    11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
    12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
    13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
    14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
    15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
    16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
    17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
    18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
    19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
    20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

  • 1register

    Did any of you watch the second video posted above?

  • Joseph R. Guth Jr

    I had an interfaith dialogue with a Muslim. I asked him what he believes. Then I shared the whole Gospel with him. This was all under the guise of tell me what you believe and I will tell you what I believe…

  • Jennifer Mason

    We must heed the word of God with this warning; “Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” James 4:4
    I am appalled at the brothers and sisters in Christ who astoundingly agree with what White did.
    What is wrong with you? Why are so many defending the actions of a man who claims his love for Christ, yet his passivity in defending his faith was at the least faithless?
    In the first place, White’s dialogue with Satan’s son should not have been ‘can we all get along,’ with our differences?
    I believe many of you have misconstrued Paul’s intent in addressing the Areopagus, his intent was not to make these people feel smug in their sin, Paul shot straight from the hip telling God’s truth with no compromise. Let’s not get it twisted.
    There is no room for discussion, when it comes to making straight the line of demarcation, Jesus said, ‘if you love Me, keep my commandments.’ John 14:15 and one of His commands is that we not yoke ourselves with unbelievers. 2Cor.6:14-18, for just getting our differences out in the open.
    God is the same God of the Old Testament and He’d never have had Israel to yoke themselves to what was unclean for the sake of airing out their differences, of course we’re different, because we have nothing in common with the world they would ever understand, unless God’s Spirit reveals it to them.

    This is one reason why God commanded me to leave the PCUSA last year, they allowed an Iman to preside over in an opening prayer to Allah for their general assembly, that’s the straw which broke the camel’s back, and my cue for exit!
    We must stop making excuses for compromise, and stand up for Christ’s righteousness.

  • Marty

    James White’s response on his 9 June podcast seemed reasonable. Brannon Howse’s response on his 30 Jun broadcast seemed, emotive, reactionary and not well reasoned.

    Dr White is not afraid to discuss the false doctrines of Islam while dialoging with Muslims.

    Here we go again with third degree ‘separationist’ fundamentalists. In the past “Any fundamental Baptist who associates with Billy Graham who associates with Catholics is wrong”. Today: any evangelical who associates with Michael Brown (Armenian) or Dr White (Reformed standard bearer) who themselves dialogue with Muslims / Rick Warren (choose from the anathematized list) is a wrong/duped/led astray.

    Really, what is the plan here? Will World View Weekend and Calvary Chapel provide the approved ministry list? Will you provide the approved Anathematized List? Are we submitting to a board of directors or a group of elders? This is why Bishops and the episcopacy is the received deposit of faith. The bishops (greek – overseer, ‘episcopas’) can confer with one another, make conciliar decisions and from a position of sound doctrine, dialogue with sinners and Muslims.

  • Marty

    Here is James White debating Trent Horn, Catholic, on Can a Christian Lose His Salvation this year. Just because Trent Horn, Catholic, uses more scripture and is more comprehensive in his explanation of the revealed text does not disqualify Dr White as an excellent Reformed debater.

    They are both in the arena, expressing their understanding of God’s divine revelation.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFs3vnTlnnw

  • Elizabeth Mix

    2 Corinthians 2:11English Standard Version (ESV)

    11 so that we would not be outwitted by Satan; for we are not ignorant of his designs.

  • Dr. James A, PhD

    James White did NOT proclaim the gospel at this “interfaith dialogue” according to White’s own definition of ‘the gospel’. White’s dialogue did not include ANYTHING about individual repentance, and White is on record in numerous articles and videos criticizing other ministries for not defining and explaining repentance, just as White DID NOT do at this interfaith dialogue. To avoid retyping the explanation, I’ve made a post on my Twitter account https://twitter.com/DoRtChristians/status/885363035996553216 . The only rebuttal White’s nasty, vindictive, vitriolic followers attempted to raise was that White mentioned that the COUNTRY needs to repent to avoid God’s judgment because of our rampant immorality. While I certainly agree with that statement, every Bible believing Christian knows there’s a different between corporate repentance of a nation (Nineveh), and the personal repentance of the individual which is what THE gospel is directed toward (Luke 13).

    If White proclaimed the gospel by referring to his comments with Yasir Qhadi on corporate repentance, does that mean if half of the country repents, the rest of the individuals in the country are saved? If White’s comments amount to proclaiming the gospel, this would be a bizarre form of universalism, and foreign to any gospel message proclaimed by even Calvinists among White’s own ilk.

    White & Co also punt to White’s other debates (some even insisting you must watch all 160 of them before being able form an opinion on anything he’s ever said, which is kind of odd, because neither White nor his followers have ever read all of my articles before slandering me all over the internet). Obviously, White knows that’s an unreasonable and irrelevant demand. White’s argument amounts to, “Hey, I once actually did preach the gospel in a mosque back in 1946 at the end of WW2, and that’s somehow relevant as a proof that I proclaimed the gospel yesterday at an interfaith dialogue”. Moreover, White has viciously attacked me personally, and lied about what I believe, and I’m quite sure White has never read all of my articles. But, that’s the double standard he gets away with because his followers enable his hypocrisy.

    White and Co will merely dismiss this by attacking the source (Genetic Fallacy) which is White’s specialty. White is a dirt-first apologist. In other words, White’s primary line of attack before addressing the merits of any argument or contention is to first, find as much dirt on the objecting party as possible, then use that dirt to discredit them, so that after he’s completely inoculated his listeners, he can always fall back on the dirt when he runs out of arguments (or has none to begin with). I expect that from politicians. It’s a shame that it comes from professing Bible believing Christians.

  • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

    Looks like James White has rallied his ill informed supporters around to post in his defense. Will they stand by him when he invites a pedophile into the congregation to “dialogue”? How about Satanists? J-Witnesses? After all, doesn’t White consider himself edgy enough to witness to everyone? Except, as he told a radio host recently, not Syria because there’s a “civil war going on”. So much for boldly defending the faith and witnessing to Muslims. Guess White is only bold when it comes to bullying Christians.

    • AndyTGD

      There are other folks addressing the subjects of Satanism and Jehovah’s Witnesses right now (I appreciate that a man can only focus on so many things). No doubt you’d condemn them too for learning what their opponents believe and arguing vigorously for the Truth, but hey. Regarding not going to Syria as a mark of hypocrisy – your argument is about as valid as when an pro-abortion campaigner responds to ‘human beings ought not to be killed in the womb’ with ‘well, how many babies have you adopted lately?’ And by that, I mean completely invalid and silly. Regarding White ‘bullying Christians’ – have you listened to Brannon Howse’s stuff and how they’ve treated folks during this little anti-dialogue witch hunt? You just stated that we, those who support these dialogues, were ‘ill informed supporters’. Plenty of your compatriots have hurled more insulting remarks around this very combox. Certainly sounds bullying to me. You can’t strike first and then play the victim.

      • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

        You seem confused. My contention is that it is wrong to call an assembly and have a jihadist lecture others on his false religion. That’s a far cry from reaching out to the unsaved.

        Brannon Howse has done a wonderful job of handling this matter. Those who are bullying him and brothers who have put their lives on the line and who live under death threats regularly for their faith, are James White and his zealots. There is an expression in Arabic, “Darabani wa baka, Sabakani wa shaka” which means, “He hit me first, cried, then reported me”. That’s precisely what James White is doing and he made sure he’s got his posse doing it, too, rounding up a lynch mob to go after brothers who actually do effectively preach the gospel to Muslims.

        God is not mocked. He sees what is happening, and He will act.

        • AndyTGD

          I’m sorry you can’t see what Howse is doing here. His vitriolic hatred of the dialogue allowed him to misrepresent it and keep on twisting it, even going so far as to take one of White’s videos and misrepresent it. I agree with you, it would be wrong to call the church together and force them to listen to Qadhi – especially in a worship service or under the impression that what he is saying is true and Christianity not. But that was not the pair of dialogues, they were for Christians who wanted to come along, but also for Muslims – a mixed group in a church building and later a mosque. No one there was under any delusions about what it was. This was not an assembly of the faithful – especially not for worship. It was, basically, not Church. No more than the dozens of apologetic talks which had happened prior to this one across the world (one of which even Sam Shamoun agreed with, the one with Shadid Lewis telling assembled Christians about his worldview).

          Nobody is bullying brothers in the Middle East, ex-Muslims or anything like that. I’m sorry if you bought Brannon’s spin on it. Please, I invite you to hop on to prosapologian (Dr. White’s chat channel) and talk about this subject with folks who are not out to bully anyone. Howse started this and he is now using these poor martyrs as human shields, stoking up emotion against Islam and the dialogues. I don’t know why he is doing this, but I pray it ends soon. Lets at least talk about it and see what is true.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I have seen with my own eyes the hatred, bullying, and threats that Brannon Howse (who has already made the news for being the victim of a thwarted terrorist attack by a Muslim) and his brothers in the Lord have received. Go read their twitter feeds. See how many of those accounts are run by the same people, all designed to harass Howse and these dear brothers in the Lord, for standing up for the gospel of Christ. And they will continue to do so because they are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ.

            By the way, why do you continue to refer to James White as “doctor”? Do you consider mail order doctorates from unaccredited universities or colleges to be legit?

          • AndyTGD

            Its funny how similar your arguments are to radical KJV-onlyists and other cultists. Ad hominem, Tu quoque… my, you’re really wracking up the collection. I notice you haven’t provided even one example of someone bullying a brother under persecution. I pray the Lord softens your heart to see the real Brannon Howse.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I gave you an example. Why do you deny it? Why lie? And why go all crazy on the KJV issue? That has to be one of the most bizarre comments you’ve made. Who brought that up?

            Brannon Howse and his ministry is in a NEWS ARTICLE. Google it. Cops were called. The FBI got involved.

            Now here you go again, calling Christians names. Why is that? Why are James White followers so easily provoked and so ungodly? How do you think that shows the fruit of the Spirit?

          • AndyTGD

            Names? Hardly, going after someone’s doctorate to attempt to discredit them is hardly where one ought to go. Its rather a sign of desperation, held by desperate people – that’s the relevance of what I said. You really like playing the victim, don’t you?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Your ascertains make no sense, and are false. Instead of discussing the issue at hand (James White’s heresy and the threat he’s brought to Christians already under persecution), you attack posters here and Christians who have labored steadfastly for the Lord. Why is that?

          • AndyTGD

            Oh, so he is a HERETIC now? Ok, you’ve just walked outside the pales of sanity. Goodbye, my insane friend.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I completely stand by my heresy comment. I suspect you’re saying Good-bye, though, because James White has asked his supporters to drop the topic.

          • AndyTGD

            No, I suggested that we leave JM et al alone as recently as two days ago. No good is coming from this raging dumpster fire which people like you are fanning by your insane language. I could keep talking, but you’ve totally jumped into loonyville by saying this is heresy. Stand by it by all means, Christ knows who has lost their mind here. Go to your elders, lets see if they agree with your idiosyncratic definition of heresy.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            There you go again, all hysterical over defending the indefensible. James White has committed a serious infraction that will keep Muslims from seeking the Lord. He has caused offense and he doesn’t even have the sense to repent. He’s still playing passive aggressive and his defenders are shamefully joining in.

          • AndyTGD

            Nonsense, but again nonsense and assertion is about all I’ve got from you for the last few hours. Nobody agrees with your idiosyncratic definition of heresy apart from a small number of extremely unbalanced people on the fringes of Christianity. If anyone needs to repent it is you.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            There you go again with that judgmental, Pharisaical attitude again. Sounds just like James White.

          • AndyTGD

            “judgmental, Pharisaical attitude again.”

            Says the judgmental Pharisee who asserts that James White is a heretic. And legalistically says people can’t learn from their opponents like Paul, John and the Early Church Fathers. lol

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Speaking the truth isn’t being a judgmental Pharisee. it’s being honest.

            I have no idea why you are delving off into catholicism now, particularly considering James White’s stance on the topic. I wonder if he wants to “dialogue” with the pope and call him a kindred spirit?

          • AndyTGD

            But you’re not speaking truth, you keep misrepresenting the dialogues and a solid brother in Christ. You can’t even tell the difference between what is adiaphora and heresy. And you cut off the Church Fathers and refuse to take guidance from those who came before, who were not even Roman Catholic – that is anachronistic. I don’t have to agree with a man on all things to defend him and his reputation from habitual liars. But I don’t expect you to understand nuance in the Christian faith, given your wildly extreme and idiosyncratic view of heresy.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            I gave you direct quotes. How do you not realize that?

            I have no idea why you’re now rambling on about catholicism. Red herring much?

            James White is an heretic. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Watch for it.

          • AndyTGD

            LOL, because you brought Catholicism up? Are you sure you started on your degree aged 14?

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Do you read your own posts?

          • AndyTGD

            Are you sure you started on your degree aged 14? Because you sure make a lot of logical fallacies and basic factual errors for someone so highly educated.

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Nice deflection there. I’ll take that as a no. And don’t be upset about your lowly BA. You can always go back to school.

          • AndyTGD

            I’ll take that as a ‘I’m I liar who claimed that I started on my degree aged 14 and really don’t know the difference between rational argumentation and the logical fallacies I’m spewing”. I do read my posts before I post them btw – you said “I have no idea why you are delving off into catholicism now…” with regard to my usage of Church History and I explained that the Church Fathers were not catholic. Whoops.

          • No one said the church fathers were catholic. Why are you throwing all these red herrings in there?

            And why do you get so easily triggered on the fact that I started university at the age of 14? Insecure much?

            And why don’t you want to talk about the issues at hand? You have been asked to pull up ONE Biblical example of the apostles calling a pagan to an assembly, calling that pagan a mentor and a kindred spirit, and then giving that pagan the floor to disparage Jesus Christ. You can’t find such an example because what James White did is unacceptable and unBiblical. Shame on you for defending him!

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            No one said the church fathers were catholic. Why are you throwing all these red herrings in there?

            And why do you get so easily triggered on the fact that I started university at the age of 14? Insecure much?

            And why don’t you want to talk about the issues at hand? You have been asked to pull up ONE Biblical example of the apostles calling a pagan to an assembly, calling that pagan a mentor and a kindred spirit, and then giving that pagan the floor to disparage Jesus Christ. You can’t find such an example because what James White did is unacceptable and unBiblical. Shame on you for defending him!

          • AndyTGD

            “And why do you get so easily triggered on the fact that I started university at the age of 14? Insecure much?”

            Nope, just think you’re a big liar judging from our conversation so far. See no evidence of a rationally-functioning human being. Maybe you’re performing Taqiyya. Ooooh….

            “ONE Biblical example of the apostles calling a pagan to an assembly,”

            And hilariously you keep banging on that this was a Church assembly and not a bunch of assorted Christians who just turned up to a ticketed, mixed apologetic event to learn what Qadhi and White believe. I do hope you read Phil Johnson’s thorough rebuttal of this nonsense – even he recognizes its bankruptcy and he disagrees with dialogues on other grounds. Given the proliferation of such NON-CHURCH events in apologetics, you’ve got a lot of condemning to do. Get to it, Mr. Heresy Hunter. lol

            http://www.romans45.org/misc/howse.htm

          • Guest✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Where did you see the term “church assembly”? Project much?

            You are worshipping a heretic, a pseudo doctor, who misrepresented his qualifications, and slamming the Word of God and godly brothers.

            Today, extremist Muslims and jihadists are praising White. They are calling him brother. Linda Sarsour is on White’s team. What does that make you?